Do conveyancers *try* to create animosity?

[BuyingWoes]

All through the buying process, the sellers' solicitor has been really difficult. We got no responses to enquiries for two weeks, only a third of them were answered, and when our solicitor asked for responses to the ones that had not yet been answered, he outright refused to answer a number of them, and would not give straight answers to others. The seller is also refusing to respond to any "further" enquiries (i.e. ones that were already there, but they didn't answer the first time), and we are wondering if that is because their solicitor told them not to bother.

We don't know how much of the difficulty is coming from the solicitor vs. the sellers, but we are certainly sensing a lot of bad feeling, and based on the, frankly rude, responses from their solicitor, we are wondering if it's all down to the interactions of the solicitors. We're supposed to be exchanging next week and completing right at the end of June, and yesterday our solicitor asked theirs to make a simple amendment to the contract to protect us financially in case of the sellers not completing on the agreed date. The sellers' solicitor replied at the end of the day today, with a very rude email, saying that they do not agree to that. It turns out he may not have even put it to the seller! If they don't agree then we feel we will have no option but to walk away, because this is really the last straw following a string of unreasonable behaviour, and we have made a lot of concessions in this process that others might not, including pushing the completion date back at their request. (We are cash buyers, so have a bit more leniency with some things, but I'm tempted to just get a mortgage next time so that sellers have to take potential problems seriously).

I can't help feeling like this process would have been a lot simpler if we had discussed most of these things between ourselves first (sellers and buyers), and then sent everything through the solicitors afterwards to have it all down in the legal documentation. Having solicitors trying to score points against each other just creates a feeling that the sellers are unreasonable people, and I expect they are thinking the same of us. The estate agent has hammered into both us and the sellers that we should not communicate directly with each other about any conveyancing matters, but frankly I think the sale may fall through if we don't, because their solicitor seems to be trying to obstruct what should be a simple process (no chain on either end).

Have others experienced this? What is their solicitor trying to achieve by behaving like this? Has anyone had a better experience by communicating with the sellers directly?

[Diamondnights]

@Cs80

Our buyer is a litigator and theirs solicitor is clearly incompetent (ours didn’t use that word but pointed to a number of queries that demonstrate very poor knowledge). It’s a nightmare. Every step is a battle. We have bent over backwards to ease the process. We (via the EA) had a very aggressive email arguing they needed consent for the removal of a structural wall that is still standing - they argued and argued. I was standing in the house responding next to a wall they claimed no longer existed. Madness.

There are bad eggs in every profession sadly.

I had conveyancers insisting we were a professional horse place because we had a riding arena. We had previously got PP for one (with domestic use only, written all over the application and permission) but never built it. It's harder than you think to get them to agree we didn't need change of use for something that was never there (& wouldn't have needed it anyway).

[Newhousehope]

@SpnBaby1967 our EA has been similar. Done sweet FA it feels like, I’ve spoken to our sellers EA so much more and they’ve been more engaged and helpful. Might be the difference between my buyer and vendor but definitely get a more pro active vibe from our sellers EA!

[Treacletoots]

Ugh. We've moved house about 6 times in the last 20 years and I can honestly say 95% of conveyancing lawyers (I won't even say they're solicitors, because they're not) are totally and utterly useless.

We've always always had to contact the other side directly because the solicitors were completely incapable of DOING THEIR JOB and responding to queries etc.

I blame the rise of 'conveyancing factories' such as Cuntrywide (spelling intended) who held up our incredibly simple purchase once by refusing to respond to enquiries for 4 months, after taking 12 weeks to issue the contract of sale (after chased by us 6 times) and then demanded proof of funds 3 fucking times !

Another similar tried to claim they didn't receive documents multiple times, despite us having a signature proof of receipt. I could go on.

Speak to the other side directly. Get them to pressure, or swap their solicitor and don't start getting angry with them because their conveyancers are useless fuckwits. Then when it's all over, report them for incompetence. It won't make a difference but it will make you feel better.

[Livingintheclouds]

My solicitor is pulling her hair out over sellers solicitor who has gone on holiday! Who does that at their supposedly busiest time ever?
But as mentioned there are good and bad in every profession. House buying under the terrible system in this country, a poor solicitor and the emotion tied up with buying and selling your home and it's no wonder it is one of the most stressful things in life.

[Campervan69]

Countrywide are a nightmare. There are firms now where they outsource all the legal checks to India, the staff in the UK aren't even qualified. Hence you get a terrible service. Trouble is no-one seems to want to pay a decent price for a decent service, so conveyancers are often loaded down with high volume low paid work. Its astonishing how much work is involved in doing conveyancing properly, and we are so busy atm. Never known anything like it in my 30 years of experience.

[BlueMongoose]

@Campervan69

Countrywide are a nightmare. There are firms now where they outsource all the legal checks to India, the staff in the UK aren't even qualified. Hence you get a terrible service. Trouble is no-one seems to want to pay a decent price for a decent service, so conveyancers are often loaded down with high volume low paid work. Its astonishing how much work is involved in doing conveyancing properly, and we are so busy atm. Never known anything like it in my 30 years of experience.

I'd never use a chain like that. We got a recommendation to a local solicitor's firm with good conveyancers. Ours was a godsend in a very protracted and difficult purchase from a divorcing couple, she was both patient and firm with the buyers' solicitors and EA, and gave us very sensible advice throughout, and was a positive rottweiler for us and our buyers when our buyers' buyers' solicitors turned out to be a crock of shite. She chased up the Land Registry for over a year to get them to correct an error the LR had made on our deeds and charged nothing for it. Good ones are worth their weight in gold, and I don't begrudge a single penny we paid her. When it was all over we sent her some flowers to say thank you.

[MangosteenSoda]

I don’t know about deliberately creating animosity, but they do seem to be a group of incredibly incompetent individuals who appear to hate their jobs with the intensity of 1000 burning suns.

Can you tell I’ve never had a good (or even neutral) experience with a conveyancer?

[user1497207191]

We were renting a ground floor property and the landlord lived upstairs. After a few years, we agreed to buy it (a 999 year lease due to common roof, structure, grounds etc). Everything was agreed between us before solicitors got involved, such as us owning the drive with landlord having access over it to his rear garden area, share of building maintenance/repair, share of joint building insurance, etc., etc. We even drew up a "property file" with everything we had agreed written down, signed by both of us, which we gave to our respective solicitors upon instruction.

Both solicitors were a complete waste of space (and they WERE solicitors, not conveyancers, small solicitor firms). The first draft contract they sent through for us to sign bore no resemblance to our agreement, i.e. different shares of joint expenses, talking about "common" internal walls, when there weren't any (it was up and down, not side by side), no mention of "common" ceilings and floors, no mention of the driveway nor access rights. Whichever solicitor had drafted it had clearly just copied and pasted from a side by side flat/house, and the other solicitor hadn't even bothered reading it as come of the errors were ridiculously obviously wrong.

Then the solicitors started blaming eachother for delays in not answering questions etc. We knew they were lying as we saw eachother every day and showed eachother the latest correspondence we received from our respective solicitors and showed eachother copies of our letters in reply, which included sending copies of building regs approvals, planning permissions, usual questionnaires, etc.

We eventually got so fed up we wrote a joint letter of complaint, signed by us both, and sent to each solicitor outlining their lies and failings and threatening rectification/completion within 30 days or there'd be formal complaints to the law society. Funnily enough, after that, they worked together and drew up a new contract in line with what we had instructed.

I think they get in to the habit of blaming the other party for their own delays and mistakes. Most times, their lies won't get found out, but when they deal with a buyer and seller who know eachother, then they are going to get found out for it.

[Campervan69]

By contrast I love my job and always get lovely feedback from my clients. Often wine, flowers etc. I hold their hands throughout the whole transaction get back to them on the day they email me and have never had a complaint in 30 years.

But I charge a decent amount so I can give them this personalised service. They are happy to pay a bit more for a trusted service. Most of my work is repeat customers, or recommendations from previous clients.

[DinoHat]

It sounds like you’ve asked for a long stop date OP?

Conveyancing attracts young, newly grads with no or little experience of law and property. It’s not very well paid but quite pressured. They get so overworked they can’t maintain any level of service and start trying to score cheap points like you have mentioned to bat correspondence off. If they just dealt with it it would be quicker in the long run.

I’m a property solicitor who actually rose through the ranks and has since qualified and moved on.

[DinoHat]

There are firms now where they outsource all the legal checks to India

I worked for one such firm. “Offshore” was amazing and actually mostly, very capable. They are all law grads and take huge pride in their work. It’s when it gets passed back to Joe Bloggs in the UK office. They don’t understand why enquiries etc have been raised and so struggle to move the matter forward themselves.

Pay monkeys, get peanuts.

It’s so sad to see how deskilled conveyancing has become.

[user1497207191]

Another property we bought, our solicitor was really brilliant. She was on top of everything, and there were no problems with anything. Not only that, but she was quick. We completed and moved in within six weeks of our offer being accepted. She kept us well informed.

She discussed the answers to the standard questionnaire, told us the consequences (if any) of missing documents, brought up a few points we hadn't considered and hadn't mentioned to her.

One of which was permitted additions without planning permission, as she'd looked at the pictures on the estate agents leaflets and had seen front and rear porches and conservatory (all of which had been add-ons after original building) and she'd asked the EA for dimensions etc to check they were within the permitted limits, which they were, and then warned us that anything else at all would need planning permission. She also highlighted a raised decking area which she thought was "too high" off the ground based on the EA photos, but that didn't matter to us as we intended to remove it anyway. There were some missing documents, such as for some replacement PVC doors/windows but she explained the ramifications and we were happy to proceed without them, mainly because they weren't recent so guarantees etc would have been out of date anyway (which we knew as they looked fairly old and we planned to replace them over time anyway).

I think she went above and beyond what we expected, but she did it in a swift/efficient manner and didn't delay things at all, even with all the extra information she asked for. None of it was irrelevant, all important to an extend.

[Newhousehope]

@Campervan69

By contrast I love my job and always get lovely feedback from my clients. Often wine, flowers etc. I hold their hands throughout the whole transaction get back to them on the day they email me and have never had a complaint in 30 years.

But I charge a decent amount so I can give them this personalised service. They are happy to pay a bit more for a trusted service. Most of my work is repeat customers, or recommendations from previous clients.

Should have touted here before instructing mine!
Radio silence when it comes to anything and everything right now. I get they’re busy, but not one email reply!! Even a, it’s in hand, email to settle my last nerves would be appreciative!!

[Newhousehope]

It sounds like it could be a fascinating area to work in, from my nosey nature!

[Campervan69]

Newhousehope I'm really strict with our trainees to make sure this doesn't happen. Even if its a holding email to say we are looking into this and will revert, otherwise can feel like your email has dropped into a black hole.

Am also on great terms with all local estate agents as often they can get answers quickly as they can speak directly to everyone which we are not allowed to do.

[BuyingWoes]

We've had an awful few days. Our sellers' solicitor is seemingly playing games with our solicitor just to score points, and has been deeply unprofessional in his correspondence, as well as delaying important things right until the last minute. Our solicitor has been forwarding us all email correspondence between them, and I am absolutely appalled at the rudeness of their solicitor. And while taking jibes at our solicitor (who has risen above it and remained professional), he's also kept us hanging on all day, not knowing whether our purchase is going to fall through or not. We're supposed to be exchanging tomorrow, and we still don't know what's happening.

Is there any way to hold these people to account? It seems that they can do whatever the hell they want, and they still get paid. It doesn't matter whether the sale goes ahead, or how much stress they cause for the buyers (or sellers) along the way. Surely there should be consequences for this kind of behaviour?

[DinoHat]

Their client really needs to be the one to make a complaint.

[BuyingWoes]

I'm not sure their client is aware of how much trouble he caused. Our solicitor was reporting to us continuously, forwarding every communication as it happened, whereas I'm not sure their solicitor worked in the same way. I would like to make them aware though — I'm just not sure the best way to go about it.

I assume his client would be interested to hear that he sent our solicitor (and therefore us) what I assume is confidential information that included names and details of the (lower) offer accepted from some previous buyers who lost out on the house due to a chain that fell through.

[user1487194234]

Don’t know about England but in Scotland you can make a 3rd party complaint against someone else’s solicitor if their actions have adversely affected you