Would you let your tenants have a puppy?

[Creamegg11]

Just that really. Tenants moved in two months ago into my two bedroom first floor flat with a section of back garden. They hadn’t mention any wants of having a dog when the letting agents asked all prospective tenants of any requirement that they want. I just had new carpets fitted to stairs and landing last year.

Tenants offered to pay extra deposit and puppy proof the flat with covers for floors etc. What annoys me is their text saying they are planning to get a puppy instead of asking whether it’s possible. It clearly states in their tenancy contract that no pets allowed unless landlord gives consent.

I told them I have a think. I don’t want the hassle of any damage or smell to flat from a dog once they leave, offer deposit or not.

[NoSquirrels]

@Ballllzac

Before agreeing any compromise on early exit, check the new rules on tenant fees - from memory it’s no longer straightforward to agree an extra “penalty” fee for them leaving early

It wouldn't be an extra penalty - they have signed the contract to guarantee they will stay until at least the break clause point in the contract.

They are legally contracted to pay the rent until that point.

It's not a penalty, or extra. It's just what they are already signed up to pay.

[WombatChocolate]

I would reply with
‘I’m sorry you feel uncomfortable, but of course you did willingly sign the contract that clearly specified then that pets were not allowed. Your tenancy does have a break clause at the 6 month point so you are entitled to give notice to vacate then or to leave at any point before that but are liable for the full rent until then as per the terms of the contract. As you have paid upfront for 6 months, if you wish to vacate before the 6 month break clause, that is fine, just let me know, but there will not be any refund if the rent paid as per the contract. Please just let me know if you want to use the break clause and confirm when you will be vacating the property. As discussed, under no circumstances is a dog to be in the property’.

To be honest, it’s best they go and go as soon as possible. I would personally be prepared to take a small financial hit to ensure they go before a dog appears. As they have already paid 6 months rent upfront, I might consider saying to them that you are not required to any rent to them as they are legally committed to pay until the creak clause at the very least, but as a goodwill gesture, you will return 1 or 2 months rent if they vacate before Christmas and the property is in good order on exit. I would again stress that they are free to leave at any point and should do so if they have purchased a property which they will take kwensership if before Christmas because under no circumstances must a dog be in the property.

I think I would be willing to do this as it will help get them out and might incentivise them not to being a dog into the property.

Don’t engage in discussion about discrimination. Stick to (and quote the terms of the Contract) that say no pets and that commit the tenant to pay rent until the 6th month break clause. Remind them that they need to give 2 months notice if they wish to use the break clause.

It is fortunate you have rent in advance in this case.

If you really really want rid of them, you could say that as a good will gesture you will return unpaid rent from the point they vacate if the property is in good condition. You stand to be out of pocket, but actually that can be the lesser evil than the tenants wrecking the property.....and this landlord tenant relationship has broken down and it’s now best to finish it as soon as you can. In reality it’s probably all bluff and actually they do t intend to move out but will still move a dog in.

[Ballllzac]

@NoSquirrels I agree that if OP holds them to the contract, they are obliged to pay minimum the first 6 months (or rather OP keeps what they have already paid). However if she decides to come to a compromise (as some posters have already suggested in order to encourage them to leave it in a good condition), anything kept beyond their agreed leave date which the OP can’t justify as a cost incurred could fall foul on the tenant fees act. See ‘early termination fees’ of the link below.

www.nelsonslaw.co.uk/permitted-fees-in-the-tenants-fees-act/

Best of luck OP!

[Creamegg11]

Thanks all. They paid upfront to February so I’m fine with them leaving then instead of the full 12 months. I don’t want them to stay the full year now as the relationship has now been fractured.

I can’t believe they can be so immature with their response by me saying no to a dog in the flat.

[SuitedandBooted]

Sound like they have already paid ££££ for the puppy (no doubt from a dodgy backyard puppy farm), as no decent Lab breeder would sell to tenants in a first-floor flat. The breeder we got our dog from checks out prospective owners' homes on Google Earth & Streetview! .

Stand firm, give them a decent amount of money back if you feel it's right, and can afford to. My main priority would be to get them out quickly.

[entrytohr]

No.

You're limited to a maximum if 5 weeks rent as a deposit, that would include this extra amount and any bond you took initially. In most areas that wouldn't come close to enough to cover the risk.

[StrangeCoat]

They are cheeky fuckers!

My guess from your updates is they already have the puppy.

I would reply and say you accept their notice to quit and what date would like like to arrange move-out?

You are under no obligation to refund them and they would be liable for the full 12 months, which you could potentially remind them of, but say you will accept 6 months.

Hopefully you'll have better tenants next time.

Don't even engage with their ridiculous 'discrimination' bullshit. Keep being professional and you could just communicate via recorded letter now.

[Creamegg11]

I emailed them saying reminding them of the breakout clause and asking to confirm they are giving me notice to vacate in February. Haven’t had a response yet.

According to their earlier email, it stated that their friend in the property business says that they won’t have any trouble finding another place in the area with ease.

So childish and unnecessary.

My concern is that I hope they don’t bad mouth me or put potential tenants off when the time comes to relet the flat.

[NoSquirrels]

My concern is that I hope they don’t bad mouth me or put potential tenants off when the time comes to relet the flat

I wouldn’t worry about this.

I would worry that you want them out and the flat re-let with as little hassle as possible, and as little damage as possible.

Pragmatically, you want them gone ASAP so you can show the flat to new tenants without them in situ ... potentially with a puppy! So ideally you don’t want them there in February even if they’re obliged to pay until then.

You mentioned letting agents earlier in the thread - do they have advice?

If it was me, I’d be telling them they are contractually obliged to pay up until February but IF you can find new tenants sooner and IF they facilitate this by making the flat available for viewings then you’re willing to come to an agreement on the rent already paid and will refund as soon as you can agree a new tenancy.

Be clear this is a gesture of goodwill on your part.

You most definitely don’t want pissed off tenants who’ve already got their hearts set on a puppy who have no incentive to keep your place nice...

[domesticslattern]

God what silly idiots.
Do have a talk to the downstairs neighbours and ask them to let you know when the puppy arrives, or if it has already.
I have lived in a flat under a puppy and it was absolutely hellish. You will want them to understand you are not happy with it and it is not a permanent situation.

[StrangeCoat]

That's a good idea to speak with a neighbour - I'm sure they'll feel reassured when you tell them the situation and they can give you any information (such as yes, they have seen they have a puppy...).

You are saving yourself a lot of potential further issues by evicting them now, they sound immature and irresponsible.

And really don't worry about being bad mouthed or them putting off potential tenants, they will just come across as resentful and ridiculous.

My guess is the reality of having to leave/trying to find somewhere that will accept them + puppy will have them trying to win you round somehow but don't listen and carry on with getting rid.

They'll lie to the next LL too.

[Marieg10]

Ask any experienced landlord and they pretty much all refuse pets including us. Generally the property isn't lettabke without having a deep clean at best and often requiring new carpets and redecorating at significant cost.

[WombatChocolate]

Many landlords find themselves in a situation where they need to accept a financial loss in order to have nightmare tenants move on and avoid longer term financial loss.

Op I think you are in this position now,

You need to think about the reality that you won’t be marketing the property again until these tenants have gone. You therefore want them gone ASAP and will probably need to make it easy for them to go which will probably involve some financial loss to yourself.

The trouble is, although they’ve said they will want to go, it is likely to be all bluff as they know moving is expensive and inconvenient and no one will be keen on a big dog in the small property they can afford. So sadly, I suspect they won’t actually confirm they are planning to use the break clause and go in February or before.....and you will be stuck with them, probably with a dog and probably turning out to be difficult in other ways too.

I assume your break clause applies to you as well as them. The difficulty is with Covid that longer notice periods are required and that might make enforcing the break clause from your end tricky...but I would look into it.

Otherwise, I would give them 48 hours from when you emailed and then ask again how they plan to proceed - will they be calling on the break clause to vacate in Feb or do they plan to stay on the understanding g that the contract applies and there can be no dogs.

I would be friendly in my tone of correspondence. I might say I can see it is disappointing for them if they have decided they would really love a dog and that you can see your small flat is t suitable for a big dog so I’d erstand if they feel they need to move to somewhere that is. I think I might offer them a good reference and some of the upfront rent back if they commit to exit at a specified date before Christmas and confirm the arrangement before the end of October. You’ll need to make it attractive to them....and I think there is still a high liklihood they won’t go. If they stay I think you need to keep reiterating that the property is not suitable for dogs, the tenancy they signed clearly specifies no pets and you will not be able to budge on this. Drop in that the neighbours wouldn’t be happy with a dog either and would certainly be letting you know if one appeared to be in the building.

Yes to asking the neighbour to let you know if there is a dog. It is in their interests too.

Op, did you reference these tenants carefully? It sounds like you don’t use an agency or might be a first time landlord. These kind of problems can happen to any landlord but are so much more likely if you don’t carefully reference potential tenants and know how to deal with a difficulty when it arises to give you the best chance of minimising it.

[BaronessBomburst]

I'd do what NoSquirrels suggested. Agree to let them leave earlier and refund their payment from such time as the flat is re-let. It gives them an incentive to get out quickly and without trashing the place so you can get a new tenant in asap.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Ok wait a couple of days and see how they respond. I would then write to them again and state should they decide they wish to leave, they are welcome to either: 1) Serve notice at the break clause date or 2) you will release them the day before new tenants move in and refund all monies after deducting ALL the associated on costs (list them ie inventory, referencing costs etc). Iterate that they can stay should they choose to do so but you will not entertain a puppy in the property due to the issues previously discussed that would arise from having a puppy in the property.

As for the no pets clause, my understanding is that this would not stand up in court as contract law will override this blanket ban as it will be seen as unreasonable.

Their comment about knowing property developers is ridiculous. Were that really the case, why didn’t they rent from these people in the first place?

[LittleGungHo]

I have said no before as pets are not permitted under the Leasehold of the building.

I would not worry if they badmouth you as there is always someone looking for somewhere to live.

You have not broken the contract, they wanted to.

Keep it professional

[Creamegg11]

Yes I used a professional letting agency, the agent at the time recommended this couple as apparently they lost out on another flat. Reference checks were done on them and as mentioned before, any requirements thatprospective tenants wanted were to be made to the agent. Some mentioned about having a cat, some mentioned a fresh lick of paint whilst tenants in place had no requirements, told me that they are looking for a place to stay long term, offered six month’s rent in advance. I had many prospective tenants interested and can’t believe I went for these guys.

According to the agent, landlords now have to give six months notice if they want to give tenants notice to leave due to Covid.

I’m still waiting for tenants to reply to my email confirming that they are giving me notice to leave in February. If they want to leave earlier, then I will only agree to it subject to them paying for my agents fees and new tenants have been found otherwise they can stay until when they paid up to and the minimum term which is February. In any case, I will be giving them notice to leave if they don’t. I try to be a good landlord and build a good relationship with all my tenants but these guys need a reality check.

[WombatChocolate]

Really sorry this has happened Op.

I wonder if they offered 6 months upfront because this was a way to avoid some referencing or they failed the affordability checks and the agents said this would be okay. Often landlords say that potential tents offering 6 months upfront is actually a red flag to potential issues such as sub-letting, drug use etc....not the things your tenants are involved with, but nevertheless, not what usual good tenants with solid incomes do.

It will be interesting to see what they say, but I’d put money on them not actually giving notice. The emails are all bluster and now they’re in and hard to get out, they are very unlikely to move on easily, especially if they actually have the dog or have committed financially to it.

If they have a fixed term contract of a year and don’t exercise the break at 6 months and you need to give 6 months notice, you may we’ll be looking at them not going until the end of 12 months, because the break clause won’t work for you with 6 months Covid notice.

Try to keep communications professional and also friendly. They may we’ll be in your property for many months this unfortunately and if you can keep some goodwill it could be worth a lot in terms of how your property returns to you. Even if a dog appears or other problems, becoming furious (even if you’re fully entitled to be so) just doesn’t help. If you have an agent, get them to work for their money and help you in terms of exactly what you should say and offer and ensure you stay legal but also protect your interests.

[UsernameNeverAvailable]

Nooooope!!

[Creamegg11]

Thanks everyone for their replies. It’s really nice to be able to share as the whole episode amongst balancing busy at work and kids has been stressful.

So tenants responded by email that they will be leaving in February and they’ve been advised by the agent to do so officially by way of a surrender of tenancy letter in December where the two months notice takes effect. I’m really hoping they do leave and don’t change their minds!

One question I have is if they put me down for a landlord reference, do I be honest and say I wouldn’t have them as my tenants again or otherwise? Thanks

[WombatChocolate]

I’d wait and see.
If in the end there is no sign of a dog, they actually won’t be guilty if anything of anything beyond asking (which is fine to ask) and exiting at the break clause. If on the other hand a dog appears or they do t actually exit......... And if they ask for a reference, I’d ask to do a property inspection first or ask the agent to do one.

It’s good you have the agent to help with this....sometimes dealing with an intermediary helps and they can present it all from a legal point of view and mention that they will need defences etc etc.

Hope it all works out and they don’t get a dog and exit as planned. A shame you need to face the expense of recruiting another tenant, but that’s life with landlording.

[randomsabreuse]

Nope. Would allow an adult dog but not a puppy. Puppies are a nightmare unless your house is really well set up for them.

[Dontfuckingsaycheese]

Blimey!! I rented our house for about 9 years before I asked permission. I said I definitely wasn't looking for a puppy. They said yes to a small dog. Or 'a small cat' whatever that is!! (Not a 🦁??) They also put new carpets in for me at that time. Luckily carpets the same colour as new ddog!! I don't blame you for saying no. Blimmin nightmare waiting to happen. Lab pup 🥺🥺🥺

[StrangeCoat]

I would be honest in so far that they paid on time and no damage was done (if when they leave that's true!)

That way you're not being deceptive and I'd be more inclined to give a 'good' reference otherwise you'll never be rid!

Hopefully they'll be honest from the outset with the new LL.

And them deciding to go DEF suggests they already have the poor puppy!! :(

[Mix56]

I think you are being unfair wanting to give them a bad reference, they paid upfront, etc
They asked if they could have a dog, you said No, they are leaving...