Sellers won't budge on price post survey

[VacheEspanol]

We made an offer on a house on the basis that it needed some work. Survey has brought up a whole host of issues that we couldn't have known when we made the offer.

We made a reduced offer based on the cost of the most serious elements. New offer is £20k less - under 10% of original offer.

The vendors won't budge. We've given them a copy of the survey, details of quotes, reconfirmed that we can move quickly. I've said we're open to negotiations.

They are obsessed with a house up the road that has apparently sold for £25k more than our original offer. But this other house is worth that - new roof, new bathroom, kitchen, garden landscaped etc.

They've also said they can't negotiate on the property they are buying.

I feel completely stuck. I can't buy a house with the amount of work that is required. But there doesn't seem to be anything else on the market.

Should we just walk away?

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

Will it cost you £25k or more to get the house finished to the standard of the other house?

If so, your house is simply not worth the £415k. Unless it's a better plot, has more off road parking etc. etc.

[VacheEspanol]

It'll cost us £25k to do work just to get basics done. Probably another 20 to get it up to a similar standard.

It is a better plot - as it's a semi though.

To be honest, I don't want to buy it, but my partner does. I fear that we're ending up with a house that is falling down. His fear is that if we don't get on the ladder now we might not ever do it.

[VacheEspanol]

I wanted to add that there is nothing else on the market at our price point. I think I have to accept that its this house even with the extra cost and work or nothing.

[BrockAuLit]

Walk away. Bottom line is that you will be giving the sellers a chunk of your own profit when it comes to selling. So, if you sell for £100k more than you paid, you're handing over to the sellers (I've lost track, sorry) £20k-odd. Plus, you will have had the hassle and inconvenience of doing the work, sellers will be laughing all the way.

Don't ever fall for the "but we'll never get anything like this". There will always be something, and more often than not that something is a better fit. Just walk away and bide your time.

[BananaPie]

Did you say you have offered 395 in the hope of getting them to agree to 400 / 405? If so, why don't you just offer 400 / 405 and make it clear that this is your best and final offer?

Incidentally, I bought in 2007 at the peak of the market as a first time buyer, terrified that if I didn't buy then, I'd never afford to buy. I sold a few years later after the crash at a loss. Your fear of "it's now or never" is probably unfounded: the market won't sustain itself if first time buyers who can spend 400k can't afford to buy.

[lastnightiwenttomanderley]

Hmmm....I'd agree that a full 'structural' survey on an older house will always look terrifying and say the house is falling down. You need to pick out the bits that really do need doing.

FWIW we pulled out of a purchase the week of exchange as our searches showed 2 records of subsidence at one house. I'm a Structural Engineer and knew it had been resolved (especially as the second instance was idiotic owners getting insurers to pay out due to their own lack of foundations when building extension) but we couldn't take the resale risk. We were prepared to go ahead but at a price that truly reflected this - £10k less than our original offer. They refused to budge one bit so we walked. house eventually went for £25k less than we were offering! We got a much better house in the end, too.

[Hellionandfriends]

Was the other house a mid terrace and yours a semi?

[Hellionandfriends]

If yours is a semi and the high selling one was a mid terrace, your actual finished selling price of the semi might be 470 or something higher then 440. Also you might have the potential to extend more easily?

Can you ring the estate agents and ask the difference between a semi and mid terrace on the same road. Or ask what price you would get for the semi house finished? You can then work backwards and take off the cost of the work.

So say the estate agent says your house would be 460 completed. Take 45 off for the work, giving you a price of 415

[Burnet]

Offer 405!

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

OP, I imagine you already know what you should do because you know what you'd advise someone else to do in your situation. It's just when you're in it you get caught up in the emotion - you like the house, you fear not finding another one etc.

The reality is there will be another house out there. That's not a problem. If you're not sure about this one, that is a problem.

PPs have said a survey picks out all the minute detail. In my experience is not uncommon for a survey to miss things or, more commonly, for you to find that something you thought you wouldn't need to do or that you could live with, you actually do need to do.

You either need to walk away, or make a slightly higher best and final offer and walk away if they don't take it

Overpaying for a house, especially one that needs work, is rarely going to be the right decision!

[ValancyJane]

For me, it would probably depend a bit on whether I was planning to stay there for a long time (when the money and work would be less of an issue), or planning to try and resell in a couple of years (in which case it's a big issue).

We were in a similar position to you last year in that there weren't many houses around that fit our budget in the specific town we wanted to live in and met our criteria (we wanted 3 bedrooms and a decent sized garden). We viewed this house and really liked it, though could see on the surface it needed quite a bit of modernisation. The survey came back with quite a few potential problems. We ultimately ended up going ahead because we could see ourselves being here for a long time; we were planning a family in the near future and could see it would make a brilliant family home with lots of space etc. So to us, paying around £10k more than we should have and knowing there was a lot of doing up to be done was worth it (even despite all the bloody hidden issues we found AFTER we moved in!). BUT if we'd just been trying to get on the ladder and planning to resell in a couple of years and move onwards, we wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole if that makes sense!

[MoreBeta]

Its true survey can read like horror stories. I didn't have one done on our house I went round with builder. I could see what was wrong and our estimates of remedial costs were spot on. We had to argue hard for a reduction though. I issued an ultimatum and told the agent we were walking away if the seller ddnt agree.

We told the agent we were going to look at other properties in 24 hours if we didn't get agreement. We named the actual addresses of the houses were considering. We meant what we said.

[Spickle]

Does your survey actually say in black and white that the roof and windows need to be "immediately" replaced? If those words were not actually said, then you are probably over-reacting. In any house where the windows have been in situ for more than 20 years, it would be reasonable for a surveyor to suggest their replacement sooner rather than later. I would expect a roof to last considerably longer than 20 years but again a surveyor will almost certainly make replacement suggestions on a roof that was pretty old. The other things you mention are written in 90% of surveys anyway and are fairly normal run of the mill maintenance issues and not that costly to sort. Obviously you do need to repair the leak, but not unreasonable to suggest the vendor does this prior to exchange. How old is the house? You mention an NHBC warranty - is that on this house or the one you currently own?

My own house has a roof which is over 50 years old - we are replacing it now but it is still serviceable and we also had a leak when we moved in two years ago, but we knew when we viewed the property that it was a do-er upper and that there would probably be more surprises on the way. We did negotiate a good price but there are other factors, i.e. plot size, potential to extend, parking etc which meant that, for us, this house represented better value than one done up which didn't have the other deciding factors.

Of course, you can offer what you like, but the vendor doesn't have to accept. What you now need to do is decide to walk away or come to a compromise. Was the house valued at £415?

[Dumdedumdedum]

Don't overstretch yourselves, I would say. If the sums don't add up for you, including the work which has to be done, walk away. Would it be worth asking a builder to give an estimate, bearing this in mind: "Also the builder that did us a quote pointed out that - the survey has to point out every single little tiny thing and so a lot of the things (even some of the urgents) don't have to be done as urgently as it seems!"?

[nowahousewife]

OP, the important question is what did the surveyor value the house at? This is what is important as this value is what you mortgage offer will be based on.

The estimated cost of work that needs doing is immaterial to the vendor, as the survey is done by you/your mortgage lender for your information. Of course if the surveyor has valued the house at £400k then that is a valid bargaining point as unless they find a cash buyer all other buyers will be in the same situation. However if the surveyor has valued the house at the asking price of £415k then that is what the market (and vendor) belivees it is worth in it's current state. Any work that needs doing is therefore up to you.

Also surveys (particularly of old houses) do tend to read like a bit of a horror story - if I believed all the ones I've had done on the several Victorian houses I've bought over the years, I'd still be living in rented!

[UrethraFranklin1]

The house is worth whatever anyone will pay for it. It sounds like you are going to pay what they want anyway, therefore they aren't deluded and it is worth that.
Why would they drop the price if you are going to pony it up anyway? They'd be mad to.

[ValancyJane]

I agree with other posters who pointed out that surveys come back with all sorts on. I remember ours said there was a small amount of damp in a large cupboard and it might need significant damp-proofing, the roof might need replacing at some point, we might get damp in the living room due to no underfloor insulation and they suspected a problem with the floorboards but didn't look, they thought the electrics needed upgrading etc.

In reality, the cupboard has had no damp problems in a year since we threw out the square of carpet in there (that their chest freezer used to sit on), no problems with the roof, took the lounge carpets up when redecorating and the floorboards are sound, BIL who is an electrician says the electrics themselves are fine (though had some choice words for the previous owner of the house who did some unique plug wiring!). I say all this touching every piece of wood in sight!!

That said, if you think there are genuine problems, you are absolutely right to ask and push for a reduction in price if you want to, especially as first time buyers you are in a strong position. But there is a big difference on a survey from 'roof may need replacing in 5 years' and 'roof is caving in and leaking in several places'!

[FishWithABicycle]

You do have to be prepared to walk away. Tell them your offer remains on the table but start house hunting seriously and make sure the estate agent knows you mean it.

We were in this position ourselves 3 years ago. We ended up walking away and buying elsewhere. The house we didn't buy ended up being sold 6 months later for a derisory amount more than our offer - certainly not enough to justify the extra half year of marketing, so I got some satisfaction from that.

[wowfudge]

Just on surveys - ours said the roof would need replacing within five years. We got a ball park figure from two roofing companies for having the work done as it was the most urgent item on the survey.

We've been in the house just over five years with no roof issues. We haven't replaced the roof. I imagine if someone had a survey carried out today that survey would also state the roof needed replacing within five years!

[mandy214]

I agree with nowahousewife. What did the survey say?

The house was on the market for in excess of £415k, but that was what you felt it was worth at the time, and the vendors agreed that. Did the survey say, with the problems that it listed, that it was worth less than £415k or not?

If the survey said it was worth £415k even with the problems, then I think the vendors are in the driving seat. I'd also question the wording of the survey - if the work was so urgent the lender would normally require a retention - if they haven't asked for that, they I think the "immediate" requirement might just be your preference and arguably the vendor does not have to fund that.

On the other hand, if the survey said its not worth £415k in its current state that you obviously have some bargaining power.

FWIW, I'm in the NW and the market is crazy at the moment, houses locally are going for in excess of the asking price.

[yomellamoHelly]

I don't see the point in paying for a professional's advice and then not taking it. I would be giving the surveyors a phone call. Tell them where you're at and have a chat about the issues. You may find some of it is arse-covering, or that most of it isn't. Then make a decision on the basis of what you're told.
Our fixer upper has cost us a lot more than we ever envisaged. (Poorly maintained.)

[NotCitrus]

Have you discussed the full survey with the surveyor? What would they demand before exchange, what would they do immediately after purchase, and what would they wait and see about?

Our surveyor spent 8 hours in the empty house and produced a 100-page document, mostly saying "You should check X annually by doing Y. If you see signs of Z which looks like blah, then contact a member of this Trade Association". He said the roof was meant to last 80-100 years so being 110 years meant it "needed urgent replacing" and there were definitely some loose tiles, but unless there were a bad storm, it would probably be OK for 5-10 years until a minor storm could wreck it.

Turned out we bought the place and the TV aerial fitter said it was in better nick than you'd expect from a ladder view, so we calmed down but it was a factor in doing a loft conversion earlier than we might have done otherwise.

Having the full report in doom-laden style helped in negotiating with the sellers, whose "master builder" dad had done much of the work. When he was aged between 80 and 100 and clearly couldn't see very well. We all ended up in the pub and agreed a price on condition MrNC and I picked up the tab!

[2boysnamedR]

I had this kind of thing years ago. Lovely victorian semi. Survey was really bad. We asked for a reduced price but the sellers said no.

There was no building approval or proof of a beam going in where a retaining wall had been taken down, walls and lintals fitted around double glazed windows as it seems the windows was not made to measure. Big missionary crack up front of house, repointing needed via access of neighbours roof.

I phoned the surveyor and he strongly advised not to buy it. We didn't and got a bigger house with a drive and garage in a better town a year later.

The house eventually went for less than our final offer

In my case we wouldn't been able to sell on with doing major work. As it would always shown there there no planning permission or building control

[Etak15]

It's a good idea to have a chat with the vendor yourself - don't forget the estate agent doesn't want the price to reduce too much as they'll lose out themselves, you could always put it across that you eithier want them to so the work or you want a significant reduction, also point out that if this sale doesn't go ahead they will have the same problem with the next buyer who will have a survey that will identify the same problems again, definantly get a quote, for all the work use a builder that will do everything mentioned not lots of different ones - not only will it be easier for you but will the quote will be higher So you've got better bargaining power! (And don't forget you can get someone cheaper to actually do the work in smaller chunks - so don't be shocked yourself at the quote just use it to your advantage)
Don't expect to get the full amount off because despite whats in front of them in black and white the vendor will be serious denial and think their house is perfect! And don't forget the price it was originally on for will be an overvalued price (done by the optimistic estate agent!).
As pp's have said it's really only worth doing all this if you plan to be in the house long term - we knew that we didn't ever want to move again and we've got potential to extend side and back if we ever wanted. Also though this was the only house I'd seen that I absolutely loved everything about (apart from the 80s/90's decor) nothing else ticked all the boxes for us.
It does sound op like you don't like your house that much? If so don't put yourself through all the hard work and hassle to live somewhere you don't like.

[Belleview]

Really makes me wonder just how useful these surveys actually are. They overstate some issues dramatically, and entirely miss other things.