Farrow and Ball - rubbish or not?

[ovariantryst]

Okay, I realise I am about to offend half of Mumsnet, but I have spent an entire morning having my ear bent by a professional decorator and I need a second opinion?

According to him and his previous experience, Farrow and Ball is a pile of poo, does not wipe clean as it should (have just seen thread here that suggests this is true) , doesn't go on well, and doesn't last long without bubbling in the Westcountry sun (not that I've seen it much recently, mind?).

So - do you agree? What should I use instead? Someone recommended Dulux but I'm concerned the pigments aren't as rich as F&B.

Is Fired Earth any better? Anything else I need to know?? It's for an 1820s house, if that has any bearing at all on anything.

[MillyMollyMama]

I agree with the bizarre comments about F andB. Have used it everywhere and all colours are lovely and we have no problems. My decorator has not complained. In fact he could not believe the great finish the exterior eggshell has given my very large wooden garage. He is now recommending this paint to other clients. Some decorators only want to use what they are used to and can match easily with cheaper paints. I have had these arguments over many years and now will not be bullied. Also I no longer have young children but, when I did,I never had mucky walls! Children can respect a home and I never wiped walls down when they were young. I did not need to so had wallpaper in those days!

[kitchenchallengeforMaggie]

Can I firstly say that I am very grateful for all the posts I have read regarding F & B paint and the application of it. One thread from thekitchenpainter said that to obtain a good finish one should use an oil based primer. As I am about to start on renovating my kitchen i.e. painting it, does anyone out there know where I could buy an oil based primer from. Many thanks

[whats4teamum]

Do not use an oil based primer. Farrow and ball paint is water based paint and will not adhere to an oil based primer. Frankly it would be a disaster.

[pommedeterre]

My dulux walls wipe lots worse than my f and b walls!

Depth of colour and finish a lot better with f and b.

[PainterPete]

Maggie, You can't mix oil & water! Get busy with sanding before you reach for a paint brush. Boring bit but important. Water based paints rapidly replacing soon to be outlawed oil based paints due to gravy train EU law. Ditch F&B and go for Little Greene, Mylands or Dulux. YouTube is good for tips on how to paint your kitchen cabinets too. If you've got pine treat the knots too :)

[kitchenchallengeforMaggie]

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to help me. I have a Little Greene paint chart so will have a look. I am told the Dulux Heritage range is excellent, however, I believe that it is available to trade only which is a pain. Will do as you advise and not look out for oil based primer. Many thanks again.

[LittleBeautyBelle]

We just painted our drawing room, yes Farrow & Ball drawing room blue. It will be difficult to ever use another kind of paint again. It went on like thick cream, smooth and gorgeous. Silky and only one coat did the job. I bought two gallons for a large room and used just one. No primer or undercoat needed.

[whats4teamum]

You should be using modern emulsion not estate emulsion in kitchens, bathrooms and hi traffic hallways. It can be cleaned with fairy etc. As a professional decorator I thought you might know that.

[morethanpotatoprints]

OP, you sre correct.
We had a painter who described it as The Emperors new clothes.
Designed with mc people in mind.
round here the professionals use Johnstones, but not sure if that's a national firm or not.
There will be a local firm maybe that your decorator will use and you can guarantee they will be good because he/she will be a professional wanting a good result and keeping reputation.

[marcosharko]

interesting discusion!

Be careful when discussing Dulux paint...they make many different paints in vastly different qualities.

They break down (broadly) into retail or trade paints. The retail paints are fine if you want to throw on a couple of layers, but they are retail paints and no self respecting decorator will use them. You can usually get them really cheap, often two tins for £20 (inc vat) which works out at only £1 per litre! really cheap.

Personally, I never use retail paints. I use the dulux trade vinyl Matt, which costs over 4x as much. It costs about £44 for 10l tub, and you will notice that they are NEVER reduced or on sale.

The leap from retail to trade paint is huge. The really great thing about trade paint is that you can safely add water, up to 1 part in 5. When you start painting you think "but if I add water, the paint will be thinner, and I will have to do more coats". WRONG!! when you add a bit of water to the trade paint, it really comes alive (obviously, if you add too much water it will get thin). but if you add the right amount, the paint actually increases its opacity. I know, it sounds counter intuitive!! It really comes alive, goes on totally smooth and soaks into the surface, creating a beautiful bond. the roller just glides over. I have done entire ceilings with a thinned down Dulux trade matt and not had to do a second coat - that's onto bare plaster. The coverage power is amazing. And the staying power of this paint is fantastic.

You will see the difference if you actually paint yourself. I always keep a little bottle of water next to my paint scuttle and add a little depending on ambient humidity, suface texture, etc. What I want to do is have the paint fluid enough to prevent the roller swipes from 'cresting' (where the roller itself is actually laying down some unwanted texture) or where the paint is so thick that it creates 'misses' during a roller pass - the miss is where you can see through the paint. if you get it just right, it will be perfect.

the problem with retail paints is that they are a final formulation and you cant really add water with much success.

[minkah]

You know how some people say there's no difference between posh champagne and cheap fizz?

Or the ones who say grinding your own spices for a curry is a waste of time, sainsburys curry sauce in a jar is just as good?

They are the ones who say 'emperors new clothes' about f&b.

All you have to do us figure out which camp you fit into.

It's much easier if you are happy with cheap fizz and sainsburys curry sauce.

Not everyone is.

People's perceptions are different. It isn't snobbery. It's different perceptions.

[shackattack]

love the farrow & ball colours - or rather, their choice of colours as of course all these colours are out there on custom-mix systems it's just hard to weed the good from the bad when faced with so much choice ..

HOWEVER I would never pay full whack for F&B paint. Go to Johnstones, give them the paint name and number (eg f&b light blue no 22) and they will mix up the EXACT colour using same pigments as F&B. Their matt emulsion is excellent quality too, goes on really thick and smooth with hardly any patching after 1 coat & completely solid after 2.

A note about farrow and ball light blue no 22 if anyone is considering using it: it is one of those paints which look completely different in artificial light to daylight. I used it in a bedroom which has a large window in it but still needs the help of a halogen light on greyer days, and it was a disaster - came out like a murky green grey colour. ended up mixing it 50/50 with brilliant white emulsion and got the colour I wanted - the white brought the blue out and made it less swamp & more duck egg. so be sute to test first as in my mum's light and bright kitchen the non-modified paint looks like the sample colour but in my bedroom it looked awful!

[whats4teamum]

It's fairly obvious that colours will look different in daylight and artificial light. You might want to read up on metamarism so you can comment in an informed manner.

You are also completely incorrect that Johnstones use exactly the same pigments as Farrow & Ball. Their colours are unique, using combinations of up to 13 pigments and stainers and do not match ral numbers or any custom mix systems.

[nicktheartist]

writing as an artist involved with interior design I meet lots of people choosing paints. I hear the 'Johnstones will mix F&B colours' regularly- don't even think about it as it's ludicrous. Many of the salient points have already been covered- of COURSE decorators don't like it; F&B contains so much expensive pigment it's always harder to apply. Most F&B colours contain BLACK- this is why interior designers choose it; when a colour is deadened in this way, it shows everything else off better- if you don't believe me, just pick any Dulux retail colour and put a subtle patterned £100-a-metre silk fabric in front of it and watch it look like you bought it from Wilkos in a sale. And for all those who think 'oh, I'll just paint everything white' - be aware that pure white paint is perceived as a cool colour by our brains, NOT a neutral colour- just show someone a spectrum wheel and ask them where cool and warm meet.... isn't it funny how most professions will go on telly and reveal tricks of the trade, but interior designers NEVER do?

[lilttlemarvel]

Well my decorators say the same thing - johnstones trade colour matched is better.
I still use F&B and little green though. I've never had an issue.

[Rozyp173]

I know this is an old thread but as I’m researching paint I have read the thread with interest. I have decided my best bet is to stick to Leyland mixed to my desired colour. I have also used Dulux and Crown paints but preferred Leyland. Its lasted better and wiped down fine. I have never used FB as the price and mixed reviews puts me off.

[jazzlover]

I was also somewhat put off with the mixed reviews, however having used their modern emulsion in our bathroom over a year ago and more recently in the dining room I am very impressed with the depth of colour and coverage. The modern emulsion has stood up well in the bathroom against the humidity and water splashes.

[tutu2]

Lakeland Paints - 180 colours, super quality, odourless & VOC-free - cheaper than FB & LG..... just my 2 cents

[Junor]

For farrow and ball paint you must use the farrow and ball primer that is recommended before applying to walls and ceilings this improves flow and depth of colour without this the finnish is sub standard if your decorator doesn't know this then they are under qualified to paint