Violin normal progression of learn for grade's?

[lexcat]

Dd has just started violin and has a friend who has been learning for 1 year. Dd has got in her head she will be doing her first exam in the summer as this is what her friend did. But friends mother told me, that the teacher said "I'm so pleased with your dd as they don't normally do primlimary in the first year."
I have googled voilin grade's and the exam boards say 2-3 term are the norm.
What is the norm as I don't what dd pinning all her hopes on that first exam or the fact that she may get a grade a year (which is what she thinks). Plus friend had the upper hand in the fact she learn recorder for a year before the violin.

[lingle]

didn't mean to imply you were pushy, sorry.

I too was inspired by exams - you give me an exam, I'll pass it - but my violin technique suffered greatly as a result. Pass Grade 8? easy. Be a real musician who can play well with others and communicate music? Just starting to learn that properly now.

good luck with the violin!

[mistlethrush]

I did violin - but I had been learning piano for 4 yrs before - started at 6. I took grade 8 piano at 17.

Violin I started at 10. I took grade 4 in a year, grade 5 about a year later - took Grade 8 at 16.

Viola I started at 14 (this delayed my violin playing somewhat!). Took grade 5 at 14, and grade 8 at 15.

Apptitude is a significant factor - I always felt 'at home' with strings, but not with piano - even though they had the same length of practise time each.

And, having taught violin, I know that some of the children that I taught will never make it as violinists, even though they enjoyed playing and did practise.

I think that having other goals would also be very helpful - such as performing a certain tune to a particular person or at a certain event.

I hope that she enjoys herself!

[snorkle]

No lexcat, I for one didn't think you were being pushy. Ds is quite motivated by grades and exams too - lots of children are. Over time though, I've managed to pursuade him not to do several and I think that's been good for him overall. That said, in the early days especially, they did motivate him to practise so there is a place for them, but it's good also to play other stuff for enjoyment too. I'm glad he's at the point now that he'll work at a piece because he wants to play it rather than because it's on an exam list.

[lexcat]

Thanks again everyone, sorry if you think I'm a pushy mother really hope I'm not. I myself learn violin as a child and never did exams and never wanted too. But my dd is very different to me and is inspired by tests and exams (liked doing her Y2 sats).
All I want is her to enjoy the violin but at the same time not to have to waste my money on lesson if she is not prepared to put some work in. Plus that she can feel she is making progess and not give up because the progess is slower then her expectations.
Really hope the exams will keep her going though times of slow progress as that is a target she has set not me.
Was really think about the first few grades.

[tortoiseshell]

No idea for violin, though ds1 is taking grade 1 this term, having played for 2 years. He is only just 7 though, I think if he had started older then it would have been quicker. He hasn't taken Grade1 piano yet, but is that standard, he is going to do Grade 2 in the summer I think when he will have been playing for 2 years.

My pattern was - started at 7;

piano;
Grade 1 age 7
Grade 3 age 8
Grade 5 age 9
Grade 7 age 11
Grade 8 age 13

flute;
Grade 5 age 10
then can't remember 6 and 7 but
Grade 8 age 14

I then did other things on other instruments, but that's probably most useful as far as a 'pattern' goes.

[singersgirl]

It took DS1 (just 10 and not particularly musical in terms of pitch and rhythm) nearly 2 years to get to Grade 1 trumpet, but that was because for the first year he didn't really practise. His v. musical friend did Grade 1 in a year and Grade 2 two terms later. Once DS1 started doing 10-15 minutes 5 times a week or more, he improved massively. He's now preparing for Grade 3 and has missed out Grade 2. So he'll effectively do 2 grades in 3 or 4 terms, without taking one of the exams.

DS2 (just 7)has been playing the piano since February and is doing his prelim this term.

[LadyGlencoraPalliser]

I liked the blonde girl because she had to work in a pub to pay for her lessons and was clearly really self-motivated, whereas Victoria was completely driven by her mother's expectations.

[lingle]

Victoria! that was it! played much better than the blonde girl, but non-musicians felt the blonde girl was better because she played TO people rather than AT them....

[flowerybeanbag]

Oh, and I'm definitely not Vanessa Mae by any stretch of the imagination/ear!

[flowerybeanbag]

Depends totally on the individual. I started the viola quite late, about 12 I think I was, and did my grade 8 when I was 17 iirc, with various grades in between starting at 3, didn't do all of them. Skipped 4 and 6 I think.

[fortyplus]

Practice is the key! If she practises 20 mins per day then a grade a year is achievable. Ds2 hardly practised at all at first so was learning for 2.5 years before he took grade 1. He enjoys it more now and makes far more rapid progress. I think grade 1 is the hardest to work towards but by then they've laid the foundations iykwim and it's all down to whether they actually want to play & learn.

[LadyGlencoraPalliser]

Do you mean Victoria, Lingle? Her mum was SCARY!

[lingle]

I think the OP is at risk of encouraging her daughter to "play to the exam" (equivalent of "teaching to the test"). Beware!!

Could you switch her (and her friend's) attention away from the exams and towards duets? After all, if they aren't communicating through music, what's the bloody point?? (as the famous cellist said in that groovy X-factor type program where the virtuosic violin player got booted out because she played as if she was practising for an exam).

Yours discordantly,

lingle

[snorkle]

You simply can't say 'no way' just because you didn't. I know several children who did 2 grades a year up to about grade 5 and while they are very good and not typical they're still way off vanessa mae standard. At the other end of the spectrum you'll get kids who take several years per grade.

[asdmumandteacher]

I did piano - prelim (aged 8), grade 1 (9), grade 3 (11), grade 4 (12), grade 5 (14), grade 7 (17)

Oboe - grade 3 (13 the same year i took it up), grade 5 (14), grade 6 (15), grade 8 (17)

I was better on oboe than piano and that became my instrument at Uni

[georgimama]

See, I must be a muggins, only one I skipped was 6 (and cheated really, switched to Guildhall after 4 - although they do say the Guildhall pieces are harder than college grades - as I didn't do Grade 5 theory or GCSE music).

[asdmumandteacher]

oops don't know what happened there!

[sadbarratthomeowner]

Similar here - started viola at around 9 and did grade 8 at 17. The first grade I did was 3, then 5, 7 and 8! No need to do them all really...

[asdmumandteacher]

A grade a year is about right at the lower stages depending on ability - some don't bother sitting prlim and gr 1 and 2 and go straight to grade 3 (woodwind usually) and then around grade 4/5 upwards i would say it takes 4/5 terms to do it really well. i am music teacher btw

[asdmumandteacher]

A grade a year is about right at the lower stages depending on ability - some don't bother sitting prlim and gr 1 and 2 and go straight to grade 3 (woodwind usually) and then around grade 4/5 upwards i would say it takes 4/5 terms to do it really well. i am music teacher btw

[asdmumandteacher]

A grade a year is about right at the lower stages depending on ability - some don't bother sitting prlim and gr 1 and 2 and go straight to grade 3 (woodwind usually) and then around grade 4/5 upwards i would say it takes 4/5 terms to do it really well. i am music teacher btw

[georgimama]

A grade a year? No chance (unless she's Vanessa Mae). I started playing the violin at 7 and did grade 8 at 18.

Try to get her to enjoy it (but also learn her scales, v v v important and I didn't grasp just how fundamental they are until about grade 5, thought they were just something to thump out for the exam - violins don't make those notes of their own accord). That will help her progress more quickly that anything else. Being in a children's orchestra, even just at school with really make her feel that she is achieving something, because en masse kids tend to sound better than solo!

[snorkle]

Well it might be a silly goal if she doesn't take to it or if she takes to it like a duck to water (when it might be too easy): there are plenty of people who get to grade 1 faster than that, but also some who take much longer. I'd try to steer her towards trying hard & seeing where she gets to and above all enjoying it, rather than setting herself exam goals. There's a great temptation with music in this country to get on the ladder of grade certificate collecting and seeing the exams as the goal rather than the music making imo.

[lexcat]

I wasn't try to compare just want to know if it's a silly goal she set herself or not. It's seems possible so I will let her keep thinking it's possible if she's prepared to put the work in.
I would have tried to put her off the idea if if was not the norm.

[snorkle]

It varies hugely between individuals. Some have more aptitude and some practise more and some do both so there's a huge range of how long it takes to get to a given grade. Also generally, older children progress faster than younger ones (so if your dd is 8 she will be more likely to make faster progress than if she's 5).

What I'm trying to say is: you can't make guesses about your child based on what other children have done, all you can do is encourage her to do her best.