phonemes - I just don't get it!

[toffeenose]

DS is at a dyslexia specialist school and they have to do phonemes every night. I just can't seem to get it despite using an internet list of phonemes. Can anyone help?
For example tonight we have Pocket, Racket, Puppet, Socket and Trumpet.
Is PO a phoneme? It's not on my list but I don't see how its more than one sound.

Help!

[CaptainMyCaptain]

@Norestformrz I agree, that's what I said I did. Apart from /th/ and initial sound /h/ as I felt I had to introduce them to the existence of the phoneme even though they never used it they needed to be able to spell the words.

[Norestformrz]

I'm in England and we articulate the /r/ in AR here.
When you teach phonics you should teach to the child's accent regardless of your own.

[JimmyGrimble]

The focus in those words is the grapheme ‘e’ making a short ‘I’ sound. Spelled ‘pocket’ pronounced ‘pock-it’.

[gran75]

Sorry! Shd have said (e.g. the vowel 'oo' IN food, rude, shrewd...)

[gran75]

Phonemes are just the sounds that make up words (or that words can be broken up into). As happygoluckyhippo says, English spelling does not help with identifying them, because one sound can have many different spellings (e.g. the vowel food, rude, shrewd...) and one spelling can have several pronunciations (e.g. 'o' in on, only, once, other). This sets out the 44 English sounds and their spellings englishspellingproblems.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/the-english-spelling-system.html

[CaptainMyCaptain]

Phonics obviously not ohinucs whatever that is.

[CaptainMyCaptain]

But in English the rrrr in ar isn't sounded its just an open mouth ar sound. I taught phonics according the the Letters and Sounds guidance and the phoneme /ar/ would be taught here.

Of course, the whole thing is a minefield for regional accents. I speak in a vaguely RP Southern accent and had to modify my own accent to teach ohinucs in the North of England - /u/ as in up and /a/ as in path and Bath were particularly difficult. I did occasionally slip up and told the children that where I learned to talk people talked a little bit differently. They were only 4 or 5 but seemed to accept this.

[happygoluckyhippo]

Sorry for the overuse of "actual(ly)" there!

[happygoluckyhippo]

@CaptainMyCaptain yes, the spelling is "ar" but I was trying to highlight the actual sounds to clarify what the actual task is. Assuming OP has an English accent there won't actually be a "r" sound in there.
Similarly there is no "p" sound in the word "phone" despite the spelling.

[toffeenose]

Thanks Purpledragon, I'll take a look at that site.

I actually speak several languages so I'm disappointed in myself on this score...

[CaptainMyCaptain]

Et" isnt a phoneme is it? This must be confusing the OP even further
Sorry, that was a mistake, it's m/ar/k/e/t.

[Purpledragon40]

I struggled to figure out phonemes and the whole phonological awareness (possible indicator where both my dcs got Dyslexia). dyslexiagold.co.uk/FluencyBuilder this did it for me though was quite happy with it.

[UnaOfStormhold]

In Scottish English (and other rhotic accents) the word market has 6 distinct sounds m a r k e t whereas in RP English there are 5 (m ar k e t). If you listen you can hear the distinct r sound that a Scottish speaker makes and an RP speaker doesn't. As a pp has said, ignore the spelling and focus on the sounds - if you were trying to help a non-native speaker with their pronunciation by making the separate sounds how would you do it?

You and your DS may find a phonics dictionary helps - oxford reading tree does one which is organised by sound and, for each sound, shows the different ways it can be written, with lists of example words.

[dementedpixie]

'Et" isnt a phoneme is it? This must be confusing the OP even further

[CaptainMyCaptain]

"m-ah-k-e-t" it's m/ar/k/et /ar/ is taught as a phoneme
T u n l it's definitely t/u/nn/e/l

[happygoluckyhippo]

It's easier to work out phonemes if you forget about the spelling! English spelling is really unhelpful!
A phoneme is a sound in a word. Which phonemes are in a word depend on where you are from, i.e by accent.
For instance a typical English English speaker might have the phonemes (sounds) "m-ah-k-e-t" in the word 'market' while somebody with a Scottish or American accent has the "r" sound as well for "m-a-r-k-e-t".
Listen to how YOU say the word and work out how many individual sounds make up the word.
Pin has three "p-i-n"
Fish has three "f-i-sh" (as "sh" is one sound and can't be broken down any more. You don't pronounce it s-h!)
Phone has three "f-oh-n"
Rubbish has five "r-u-b-i-sh"
And so on...

[Norestformrz]

T u n l

[CaptainMyCaptain]

T u nn e l

[toffeenose]

Thank you Stucknoue - good to know there is light at the end of the t u nn el

[Norestformrz]

The best way to work it out is to ignore the written word and simply say the word aloud.
What sound can you hear at the beginning when you say market? What's the next sound when you say market? Until you get to the end of the word

[avocadoze]

Just a thought: if your ds’s dyslexia specialist school is giving homework both you and she find confusing, and you’re consistently not able to do it, I’m not hugely impressed, as effectively you’re spending time reinforcing struggling with letters rather than reinforcing ease of recognition. Might be worth having a word with the teacher.

[stucknoue]

You aren't alone, I never got it, neither did either of my DD's (one diagnosed with dyslexia, the other is autistic) didn't do them any harm though, both are at university

[reallynow1]

Mr Thorne does phonics explains things well - lots of vids on YouTube

[Norestformrz]

I second <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.udemy.com/course/help-your-child-to-read-and-write/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.udemy.com/course/help-your-child-to-read-and-write/

[ThisIsNotARealAvo]

On Twinkl (probably other places too) you can get phoneme mats with a picture of each phoneme. For example s - sock, igh- night, ar, market etc. This might help. I am a teacher who specialises in phonics by I had to learn it all too.