Steiner schools... good or bad?

[FelicityLinen]

Hi mumsnetters, this is my first post! As a new mum of one DS I am now thinking about education from a parents' perspective. I live near a Steiner/Waldorf school and have heard some good things about it. What are your thoughts/experiences? I like the artistic focus but does it give children a good enough chance to excel academically too?

[FesteringCarbuncle]

The ideology behind it is horrible. I would read up on it
Some parents claim that individual schools do not follow the ideology to the letter but I would be wary

[PalePinkSwan]

There’s a Steiner near us, who take their children to the nearby park constantly and they are notoriously nasty bullying little horrors. The teachers essentially believe that children are bullied because they deserve it, as punishment for past sins, so don’t step in.

The superficial stuff all sounds very nicey-nicey (nature! Art! Develop at your own pace!) but the underlying philosophy is very very weird.

[Norestformrz]

"The underlying science is science." Should that be The underlying science isn't science?

[picklemepopcorn]

For example when they start teaching letters and numbers, each figure has a picture and story associated with it to make it memorable. That was also used more recently by Jolly Phonics and Letterland.

[picklemepopcorn]

The underlying science is science.
The underlying philosophy is dodgy. However, I don't know any schools that actually follow that philosophy now. Steiner was a turn of the century German, when all things weird and wonderful were in fashion.
The education system which grew out of it is educationally sound, even if the belief system it grew from is not.

[Cliona1972]

Mmm, but the underlying "science" is to do with angels,racism and allowing bullying.
www.independent.co.uk/news/education/steiner-schools-have-some-questionable-lessons-for-todays-children-a7402911.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/02/exclusive-top-steiner-school-ordered-close-government-child/

[HoverParent]

It's like nursery instead of like school. It's a safe haven in the US among anti-vaxxers because they evade the state vaccination requirement for school attendance. But they don't learn to read or write properly until Year 3 (they are forced to write with an ink quill that they make themselves, which sounds romantic until you try writing with one, it basically prevents them from writing anything) and maths is low on the list of priorities (have not seen any maths teaching at all), so they are basically missing out on school. Y3 is basically English Reception level.

The worst criticism is of course the legacy ethos of racism and unscientific grounding in the learning philosophy. If you are an ethnic minority, I would steer well clear.

[Cliona1972]

Nothing would pay me to send a child to them. They sell it as happy clappy, hands on, nature friendly but the underlying philosophy is one I'd run a mile from.

[picklemepopcorn]

Safeguarding was an issue, but more to do with lots of flames and fancy dress, rather than strangers.

They adjusted brilliantly- DS2 went into Y2of a small primary, then a huge secondary. DS1 stayed in the very small school up to GCSE, because he wouldn't have coped in a huge school.

DS2 is off to Uni this year, prestigious course. DS1 didn't finish his Computer science degree, but he's always worked from the age of 18. He's in a tech job now. Very dyslexic/dyspraxic/or ASD.

[HettieBettie]

Any school is only as good as it’s staff.

Personally I think you have to be careful with Steiner philosophy indoctrinating children but no more than faith schools etc

I would personally be very alert to the safeguarding and safety in a Steiner school. Eg how secure is the site when looking around? As many are quite literally have an ‘open door’ policy - I wouldn’t be happy with this.

[FelicityLinen]

@picklemepopcorn how did yours find adjusting to mainstream education coming from a Steiner school?

[picklemepopcorn]

Quite! It was great taking mine in whatever comfy and practical clothes we liked.

The children seem to stay 'young' longer, they don't actively try to 'wake them up', they let them develop at their own pace. DS2 was firing on all cylinders early, and when he joined mainstream aged 7 he caught up in no time. DS1 was dreamy until he was about 12. Well 22 going on 12. He's still a bit dreamy.

But you need to look into it thoroughly. The teachers at DSs school never brought the religion (theosophy) into it, in fact one was a CofE Church warden.

[FelicityLinen]

@picklemepopcorn I went to school in Austria and Germany myself and so also started later than they do in England. I don't think it is right starting formal education and reading and writing so early and it feels very unnecessary when children can learn it just as well if started a little later and therefore get a few more years of play. This is one of the things that puts me off the local state schools. I also don't like uniforms.... it feels strange to me that children should wear impractical polyester/nylon clothes to school which they then seem to take off as soon as they get home. Why not just wear one's own normal clothes appropriate to the weather and what you have on that day?

[picklemepopcorn]

All the European countries seem to favour starting formal teaching from age six or seven, when motor skills are far better prepared for it. Steiner philosophy's May refer to teeth, but the underlying science of waiting until children are ready is sound. Eurythmy looks frankly weird, especially when your child is 'prescribed' extra lessons, but the underlying science concerning gross motor skills and coordination is sound.

[butlerswharf]

@FelicityLinen I was a doctor then and they were in supporting people roles (support worker/carer etc). Also I didn't realise the whole psychic/mystic type connection until reading this thread but that was also evident actually. I thought it was just part of the whole feckless thing until now. I didn't realise it was Steiner related.

I certainly wouldn't allow my children to go to a Steiner school. I just didn't feel it equipped people for the real working world.

[HMC2000]

I don't think there's any underlying science to support their belief that children should be prevented from learning to read until the correct point in their dental development, nor in their position that SpLDs, and conditions such as Autism, are a punishment for bad behaviour in a previous life.

[ProfessorMoody]

Also, we don't have OFSTED in Cardiff

[ProfessorMoody]

Private school teachers don't have to be qualified either.

[picklemepopcorn]

It's wrapped in weird and wonderful, but usually the underlying science is sound.

[picklemepopcorn]

I'm not a paid employee! My two went there for some years, but went mainstream for secondary.

There are some weird and wonderful beliefs. The teachers aren't qualified in main stream teaching. They have a different training.

It was not all sweetness and light, but it was great overall.

The handcrafts and eurhythmy were about coordination and brain development. A low tech version of brain gym, if you like!

[Clairetree1]

If you read the OFSTED report for the Cardiff Steiner school they state the majority of teachers aren’t qualified

because they recruit based on psychic ability, not qualifications

[Frosty6611]

There were definitely a few weird things that we had to do such as eurythmy dancing, basket weaving and juggling (yes, really....) but stuff like that was only a small part of it.
We had to do a 2 month German exchange in year 8 which was so much fun (although don’t think my parents were best pleased about having to house a German boy for so long)

[GoodHeavensNoImAChicken]

If you read the OFSTED report for the Cardiff Steiner school they state the majority of teachers aren’t qualified. Steer clear

[Frosty6611]

I went to the Steiner school in Edinburgh for 6 years (from the age of 11-17). I was badly bullied at the state school I went to before but had a lovely time at Steiners as the kids just all get along (there isn’t all the popular crowd/nerdy crowd stuff like in other schools).
My personal opinion is that it definitely focuses on more of the creative subjects such as art, music, gardening and drama, but all the other subjects like maths, science, languages and English are all taught to a good standard too. Everyone in my class (bar one) went to uni and most of them all have good careers now. Some off the top of my head are a teacher, occultation therapist, psychologist, architect and accountant.
There were only about 25 kids per year which I really liked.
Let me know if you have anymore questions

[Clairetree1]

MN certainly can't stand up against them

I may well get banned for saying these things.

But I hope you read y posts first, OP