Unsupported SEN pupils taking priority in DD’s class

[Scamp48]

Just looking for some advice please from parents or even better from teachers on here.
My DD is a very young Y4, but even so managing to achieve above average results in maths and reading. Writing, and in particular handwriting, are more of a struggle.
Her class is Y3 and 4 combined, but even so, only 20 in total. There are two SEN children who have most of the teacher’s attention, one of these children has medical/special needs, and several phobias. The second SEN child’s behaviour has deteriorated since the arrival of the first SEN child. Neither child has an assistant.
My DD estimates that her teacher spends 40% of her time with these two children. If any of the middle-ranking children have problems in maths/English, they are pulled out of assemblies and given one-to-one’s. The higher performing children seem to be left to their own devices, and I’ve come to the conclusion that this academic year will have been a write off for my DD. At parents evening, I did say that I thought my DD could be stretched more and the teacher agreed.
The teacher is exceptional and totally in the right profession. She is in her second year of teaching and i don’t want my grumblings to be discouraging for her - I think she is fantastic at her job but has been dumped in the deep end! I went in this week to talk to the principal and feel I have explained things badly! In the meantime, my DD has a couple of instances where she didn’t understand work (unusual for her) and not only was not not picked up, but even when I I pointed it out, it still wasn’t followed up (the teacher just doesn’t have time when coping with these two high needs children). How to approach this and to instigate change for the better? TIA.

[Mammyofasuperbaby]

I am both the parent of a child with SN and a teaching assistant and I see how the lack of funding is affecting the children everyday. It isn't uncommon for staff to spend quite a lot of time settling those with SEN rather than actually teaching. This isn't the schools fault but it is because they are only able to deal with concequeces rather than try to prevent and therefore help everyone. I decided to take an evening job and work for free in the school where I trained to help them save money and because those children deserve a good stable education. Not possible for everyone but it works for us

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

Depends on the school. Ds’ has a lot of Sen children, including a lot of ASD, and funding is having to stretch really thinly to cover it.
The other issues is that a lot of conditions like company so you may have children with more than one condition that needs supporting even if they don’t have any behavioural issues with the SEN.

[chocatoo]

Every child matters - that includes your child. I think that you need to raise these concerns in the nice way that you have here with the head and chair of governors and ask them how they plan to address this difficult situation. Otherwise I am afraid that you might need to consider a move.

[Norestformrz]

Not my experience Gnother

[MaisyPops]

I can see your frustration if the teacher is spending all gheir time on 2 pupils. I have seen classes where teacher time can easily be taken up by the same few pupils.

I have a Y7 child who would happily take all my time and attention given half the chance. She's weaker than others but not lacking. She was used to having 1-1 support in class because she was at a primary where every class had a TA. It would be really easy to spend 45 mins a lesson answering endless questions from her. However, teacher time should be divided across the class. She gets a bit more input for confidencr building because now she's much more independent than if I'd spent the last 6 months sitting next to her. The time spent there was worth it because she can get on now and I can see more children.

I always say everyone should find some of the work challenging so the fact that your DC found something difficult wouldn't be a massive concern to me. Sometimes bright children can lack resilience when it comes to challenging work.

Equally, I would be cautious about generalisations about how the teacher spends all the time with other students. Students can and do overstate things.

You've raised your concerns. I think you were right to do that. But discussing pulling your child out over this is an overreaction.

[AmberTopaz]

Yes, I agree that there is more funding available in exceptional cases. I know that my DC’s school has received some of this funding in the past, but not at the moment, as the children in question left (one at the end of Y6 and another to go to a special school). I’m sure you’re right that this level of funding implies that the school currently has an average or below average number of SEN children compared to other schools.

My point is that £13,000 is just not enough money to support all the SEN children in a school of that size, whichever way you look at it. Even if there are fewer SEN children than average, none with particularly serious needs etc etc.

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

Where do you think you get top up funding from? Our LA has just top sliced school budgets for the second year in the row to fund LA wide things.
Everytime we ask for anything it's refused.
We had to get a special chair for a child that was refuse. It was half funded by a charity in the end.

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

I can see how budgets are gobbled up tbh. Just looked at arms for school chairs ds needs and they are nigh on £100.

[BubblesBuddy]

Send budgets are devolved to schools, and have been for years, as part of the devolved budget formula set up by the local authorities. The formulas will not all be the same and authorities retain budgets for "statemented" children. Some Authorites run with about 3.8 % centrally funded "statemented" children, in others, a more usual figure is 2%.

Some authorities spend more on education, and others are near the bottom of the league tables. There are huge differences in funding devolved to schools by LA's depending how much they get from council tax revenue and government grants. My LA will not have a government grant from this year. None. Nothing.

It is up to schools how they spend the devloved money on their Send children. However, they do a all get it. Anyone who is interested could ask to see the school budget for their school and see what the Send income looks like. It is not a confidential figure. Schools have long had autonomy in this area of spending and it is swings and roundabouts. Some children's provision costs more than others. In our school, about half the Send children are PP. Not every child has or needs, TA time. We have a variety of strategies for a variety of children. However, we never say we cannot afford the provision that is needed.

[CatMuffin]

A child would always prefer to head out to play at the end of the lesson rather than tell her teacher that she didn’t understand the lesson
Does she puts her hand up during the lesson to say she doesn't understand?

[BubblesBuddy]

If a LA has funds for top up Send funding they are not devolving all the funding to the schools. They are keeping some back for difficult to resolve cases. Typically this can be for adaptations to buildings and special expensive equipment. No two LAs will be the same so comparing them is a bit futile.

[user789653241]

zzzzz , I don't think you can really say that it works well at your school, so other school should be able to do the same.
Even in the same school, different needs are met differently.

[GnotherGnu]

Norest, it may not be your experience, but presumably you accept what the statistics demonstrate? The facts about appeals that succeed or are conceded by local authorities are incontrovertible.

[GnotherGnu]

Capelin, you need to ask questions about the figures you have been given for your school's SEN funding. If they have a number of pupils on the SEN register then, unless they have all arrived this year, the school should be getting way more than £13K for them. I would wonder whether the school isn't in fact applying some of that funding elsewhere.

[Capelin]

Gnother, I know those figures are right as I’m a school governor. Shocking, isn’t it

[purplesquirrel1]

Gnother gnu are you a senco?
Are these statistics that you are quoting from the government? The same government who produce statistics that argue against the teacher recruitment crisis?

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

zzzzz I'm sorry my user name offends you. I don't think SEN children are idiots and I don't think anything I've said has at all supported your view that I do.

I'm not in the habit of changing my user name and since I happen to think that the world is full of strange people making v odd decisions I'm not changing it.

Re top up funding it may depend on the LA you are in. In my experience rural LAs struggle.

[Coloursthatweremyjoy]

Probably this has been addressed before but I must take issue with the idea that a child with "SEN" who has had a TA from reception has parents who are "on the ball".

My son has had identified special needs and associated behavioural difficulties from reception. This is our 3rd school , I have fought for extra support every step of the way but the schools wouldn't or couldn't get their acts together and compile evidence. Or insisted he was"fine" while complaining how hard work he was, go figure.

This year I told the SENCO that I would apply myself...she couldn't throw me the file fast enough. We are a little over half way through the 20 week process to get him an EHC Plan that will provide the support he so obviously needs. The LA are by all accounts likely to turn me down...then I'll appeal...then 2 days before the tribunal they will probably back down. It's like this in a lot of places.

He is in year 6.

I have mused during this process that a great way to save money would be for LA's to stop spending 6 weeks (to the day) gathering evidence and having meetings in order to decide whether on not they will comply with the law.