School swimming

[GraceMC]

Hi, My daughter is 7 years old and she is in year 3. This term her school is doing swimming lessons, although she has been swimming in the local swimming school for 4 years(currently in stage 7), she is happy to go with her school as well.

She can confidently swim in each stroke 50 meters no problem. But her PE teacher pointed out she has two technical problems, the first one is when she is doing front crawl, she lifts her head up slightly at the front rather than from 30 degrees above water. The second problem is when she is doing backstroke, she doesn't use her arms at the same time.

Despite that she can swim 50 meters on each stroke, her PE teacher said she won't pass national curriculum because those two technical problems. I am very shocked to hear that because I had a look swimming national curriculum, there was no any indication about what kind of technical problem will make them fail.

And I really don't like the way she talked about my daughter. After the 1st lesson my daughter was in the middle group, some children were clearly not as good as her ended up in the top group. So I went to see the PE teacher and wanted to know why. She told me even my daughter is in the top group, she won't pass the national curriculum. I was so shocked and asked her:"so you won't let her pass?" She said: "no, I won't let her pass, but if she stays in the middle group, I will let her pass. "

I really don't know what to say and what to do, I feel I have been threatened by a PE teacher.

[user789653241]

But I thought state school need to assess children according to NC, which is working towards, at, above or whatever?
Can they actually say your child "failed" on the report?
Well I'm not English, so my understanding might be totally wrong, but never heard of this in rl or on MN.

[sirfredfredgeorge]

They can include anything else on the report that they see fit, they just have to use the NC stuff, but could add anything else.

Use of Pass/Fail is something I think is very unlikely to see in a report. However I do think it's quite likely to use pass casually in speech to describe not meeting the expectations, particularly when a parent is trying to tell the teacher that they don't know their job and need to move their child.

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

That's absolute bullshit!!

I taught private and school lessons for ten years. The NC has a huge scope for different interpretation but the stoke only needs tonne efficient not technically perfect.

I'd ask for the list off that she works from because I'm sure there is around ten things per award. No where will it point out what she has said.

Plus the head does not turn 30 degrees, it's a shoulder rotation that lifts both the face and shoulder out.

What a nobber!

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

The school will have no say what so ever over the swimming NC. Most school teachers just go for a fag and leave the swimming teacher to it

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

Also I'm really shocked they are trying to fail her because it's actively encouraged to get them through it as they will some times come back for top up lessons if the didn't meet the requirements - mainly on lower 25m award though

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

They can include anything else on the report that they see fit, they just have to use the NC stuff, but could add anything else

No I can't see this. They may stray slightly from lesson plan but all awards come with a preplanned set of requirements. This is what they get assessed on. There is no reason what so ever to add on.

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

grace I 100% guarantee the teacher will have a little tick list of requirements the kids need to do. Ask to see it.

Efficient or good style is different to technically correct - which is only defined by the ASA

[user789653241]

"when a parent is trying to tell the teacher that they don't know their job and need to move their child."

I'm normally on teachers side if it was something like book band. But I can't understand how a child who can swim 50m confidently fail NC requirement? "Reading" maybe not so visible, child who can read fluently may not be good at comprehension. But can/cannot swim is very obvious to see, imo.

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

It is irvine, very visible. Either the teacher is a nob with power issues or there is another reason.

[catkind]

Even on ASA levels which should be very well defined and do have a tick list, I've seen massive differences between how rigorously different swim schools interpret them. Even different teachers within the same school.

They also seem to rather take pleasure in insisting their own way is a) correct and b) much more rigorous than anyone else's way. DS swims with two different schools and has learned to adapt technique to the teachers little quirks or he gets told he's doing it wrong.

I don't think the NC requirement has a tick list. It says they should be swimming different strokes, it doesn't specify exactly how technically correct they have to be, or what constitutes technically correct. If they're being that exacting I think exactly one child in DC's class would have "passed".

[NeedingSolutions]

Can you ask the teacher where you can go to for appeal of her decision?

[MrsEms]

Hi GraceMC,

My DD started swimming with school this year and after four lessons I've come to the conclusion, it might be the wrong conclusion but that school swimming lessons are just a pe lesson for anyone who doesn't need arm bands/discs. My daughters class are taught by one of the school teachers who according to DD is getting instructions from the swim teacher. The swim teacher is working with the ones who can't swim but those that "can swim" (which ranges from those that can doggy paddle upto stage 6) with the school teacher. The other week DD said mummy Mrs X said I need to kick more on my back. The swim teacher from her out of school lessons tells her nice gentle kicks! She also told me that they are only swimming widths in the shallow end and it's only back swimming and front swimming and that some are swimming with their head up and some are doing front crawl like DD!
My only issue now is that they wont let them use goggles. DD's proved she can swim without them now. She is allowed them in out of school lessons (same pool they go to with school) once ASA 4 and doing stroke/technique work but is coming home with red sore eyes. Since going with school she's stopped wearing but we have told her to start wearing them again because her front crawl technique is suffering without them and her eyes are sore!

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

There will be a set of requirements as guide lines for the teachers to follow ask to see it.

Also ask to speak to the swimming coordinator to discuss what the problem is .

[wonkylegs]

Thankfully my DSs school swimming lessons are with his old swimming teacher so she tends to use him to demonstrate things to the rest of the class as he's one of the few proficient swimmers there. School swimming lessons are so limited (ours do half a term in year 5 & 6) I wouldn't worry about it too much and save your energy for encouraging your child out of school lessons.

[GraceMC]

I have booked an appointment with the HT and the PE teacher, I will update it after the meeting.

Thanks for who replied. I am actually reading a lot of reports and articles about NC, all of them published by the ASA, the ASA said the strokes used should be recognisable to an informed onlooker. It didn't mention any technical requirements in NC, as long as the strokes are recognisable, it's good enough. Very interesting.
I have spoken to my daughter's private coach, she said NC allows young children to have technical problems, at this stage no young children are technical perfect, because they are trying to survive in the water, they do whatever they feel comfortable to reach the end. They may have a good start and bad end, as long as the strokes are recognisable and they can swim 25 meters, that means they meet NC requirements. I think that sounds more reasonable.

[AJPTaylor]

gosh, really? a meeting with the head? well, it takes all sorts i suppose. Look forward to the gcse years.

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

grace who is teaching your child swimming?

School with own pool and teachers

Or

Leisure centre with own teachers that your child school attends

Because if it's the latter the head teacher of your kids school with have no idea what your taking about!

[GraceMC]

School hired the local leisure centre, 3 teachers are teaching 3 groups, two teachers are from the school, one teacher is from leisure centre. The PE teacher (also qualified swimming teacher )is in charge. All I concerned is the PE teacher put her own regulation above national curriculum.

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

I agree school swimming is a joke and actually I don't think schools should do it.
It is a national curriculum requirement that it not adequately funded if at all (in most areas the funding was reduced but the requirement continued). Most schools cannot provide an adequate amount to make any difference to a child's ability to swim.
I would worry more about your schools ability to adequately fund teachers.

[brownfang]

Is this a private school?
Schools should do lessons imho b/c so many parents don't bother, the lessons may be the only consistent opportunity kids have to learn.
But I don't take the grouping very seriously. My DD moaned a lot about her group & her friends placement, but it was a temporary thing so not worth my energy. I told DD to just concentrate on her own part.

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

Ah I see grace

Personally I'd ask when the PE teacher last did any training or CPDs concerning NC swimming.

I'd ask to see any guidelines concerning the requirements (as they do change slightly from area to area)

I'd also ring the ASA swimming org. And ask their advice on it.

I'd also ask for a second opinion if the actual swimming teacher that the hire from the pool.

Totally being difficult of course !

[Imonlyfuckinghuman]

Tbh I'd bet money on it that the school Pe Teachers qualifications have run out or that she hasn't up trained regularly or recently and the only reason the swimming teacher from actual leasuire centre is only there for health and safety.

[brownfang]

I see dealing with unfair situations & difficult people as an opportunity (actually, most problems in life are also an opportunity). It's practice at dealing with annoying & unfair people in a limited exposure environment. Unfair but unimportant challenges are good opportunities.

My threshold for making a fuss is much higher than the situation OP describes.

[AJPTaylor]

me too fang. i did have a friend who asked the year 1 teacher for her writtn policy of how she chose star of the week though so in comparison its a serious issue.

[GraceMC]

Excellent point, thank you. Will definitely ask about it.