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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Primary education

Dramatic drop in KS2 sats results

79 replies

HalleLouja · 19/01/2017 11:06

Would you be worried if the primary school your children went to school at had a really bad set of KS2 results?

The school had a meeting and they are putting changes in place. My kids are really happy there and seem to be learnings loads.

It is a one form entry school so that can distort things. I know there has been a new curiculum but the school has fared worse than other locally.

I am not hugely worried but lots of people seem to be and I feel like maybe I am missing something. Last year's results were fabulous and this year way below national averages....

OP posts:

Report

Feenie · 19/01/2017 22:31

High numbers of mobile pupils - the pupils that had been at the school for a number of years did a lot better than those who hadn't been there for long (an area with a lot of movement and children coming from abroad).

True, but children arriving in Y5 and Y6 from countries without English as the predominant language wouldn't be included in the data.

Greenifer · 19/01/2017 22:59

It's not just children without English. It's children coming from eg the USA and other English-speaking countries. Mostly the USA (about 10% in my child's class, Y5). I think it is still significant that the scores for children who had been at the school for a long time were a lot better than the scores for those who hadn't. It's a v socially mixed catchment area with a lot of expats who move here for a year or two for work.

mrz · 20/01/2017 06:16

I agree we had a child arrive from Scotland the week before the tests who couldn't access the tests but counted because English is her first language. In past years we've had children from Ireland who also struggled.

HalleLouja · 20/01/2017 08:58

bojorojo the value added was poor when you compare schools which had similar KS1 results for that year 6 group nationally the school was at the bottom.

It is a really nice school and not too pushy. Its not perfect but then no school is but until I saw those results I didn't have a major issue.... I do think they might get an ofsted visit after these results though.

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HarveySchlumpfenburger · 20/01/2017 10:26

You are probably right. Ofsted shouldn't judge on just one set of results but they may well uncover issues that explain those results.

Autumnsky · 20/01/2017 13:31

Well, as long as the children are happy at the school, I wouldn't worry, but I would certainly do some extra at home to make sure DC learn everything required. A lovely school with low SATS score certainly mean the school has some problem.

Like in my DS1's primary school, their SATS dropped quickly, then changed into require improvement in a few years. We all know the reason now, it is because the headteacher and a few senior teachers left, and the new headteacher didn't do well to keep the school going. DS1 still had a happy school life, as that school has the tradition to have plays, music and activities, and also children are lovely. however, the teaching was not very good which we didn't know.

user1483972886 · 22/01/2017 13:33

Our school got 25% for writing. :-( . DC is in yr2. I am very concerned but most parents don't seem bothered at all. I have emailed the HT to ask what their plans are but not yet had a reply :-(. Scored 'well below average' for progress in maths and writing.

HalleLouja · 23/01/2017 09:54

User that doesn't sound good at all. Were the results ok before or is that consistent? There have been a lot of anomalies this year with the new curiculum so I would see how it goes this academic year. Also email the governers as they should also get back to you.

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bojorojo · 23/01/2017 13:31

If these schools are in the well below average category, expect Ofsted to take a keen interest! They are all about progress now. They will not look at the results in isolation: they look at the progress the children made over time to get these results. If they should have been much higher ( the children had good starting points) and the children made poor progress, then the school is poor and should be immediately analysing what is wrong and addressing it with a robust improvement plan. There is no reason this cannot be shared with parents. However, poor schools often fail to act and are complacent ( or even worse - do not know they are not good enough!)

Halle - I think your comment about the school not being too pushy could be the problem. It may be coasting and not challenging the children.

Lastly, lots of teachers have found the assessment of progress very difficult with the new curriculum. Some schools over inflate and others are too cautious. New children in Y5 and even Y6 where I am a governor have come with assessments way above where we would put them. If lots of teachers are inaccurate, SATS can be a rude awakening and so can moderation!

HalleLouja · 23/01/2017 13:48

Bojo it was just one set of results and a new curiculum. Previous results were well above average. I think they do push children who need it my son previously had extra maths help as he was doing well. We will see what happens in the next few months. They are changing the way they teach maths and English as well as starting on growth mindset (which other schools started a long time ago....). Maybe it is the kick they needed. Only time will tell.

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user1483972886 · 23/01/2017 14:21

Prior to 2016 I would say the results have been average. I fear I will be given the usual flannel about small classes mean one or two weak individuals pull the results down... surely its the same in every small school?!

bojorojo · 23/01/2017 18:30

Yes it is, but that is why schools should look at the progress of individuals. That is the headline - not the results. Even weaker children can make good progress and some may get PP money to help that happen if they qualify.

HalleLouja · 20/02/2017 10:02

Mmmmm so after ofsted now the head has gone..... I think there may have been safeguarding issues with lack of DBS being done for helpers. I suppose we will see when the report is published.

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nat73 · 20/02/2017 10:24

I'm interested in this thread because our school had similar results - 25% overall pass. (83% reading, 62% maths but 25% writing which was moderated).

But the difference was at our school there was no meeting or news of changes to be put in place... radio silence..

I went to ask the HT about the results. They are putting it down to an error in the writing - apparently they did not find out til very late what was required for the writing (X number of pieces of work demonstrating Y which were unmarked). And allegedly on top of this the moderator interpreted the rules over zealously and hey presto 25%. Apparently they have been visited by the council's school improvement officer (or whatever they are called). HT said the council had written to apologise about the moderation but it was not possible to 'correct' the results.

I also contacted the council as a number of schools did badly in our area. I did not ask expressly about writing but the one thing they did say was that their moderation of writing was fair and consistent.

Which seems to fly in the face of what the HT told me?! Who should I believe the school or the council?? Who should have known about the requirements for the writing? Is this the fault of the council or the school?

No other parents seem fussed. Most parents are very low key and we seem to be the exception rather than the rule..

Should we worry? Our impression is that our parent population is not pushy and hence the ethos of the school is very laid back. We are concerned our DCs will not be stretched and hence when they move to an inde school at 11+ at best it will be a shock and at worse they will not get in.

What is happening here? How come we didnt get a meeting with clear steps in place?

HalleLouja · 20/02/2017 10:32

nat have you contacted the governors? I would go with that route if HT isn't getting anywhere.

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mrz · 20/02/2017 10:37

"They are putting it down to an error in the writing - apparently they did not find out til very late what was required for the writing (X number of pieces of work demonstrating Y which were unmarked). " sorry but that's utter rubbish ...writing is moderated on every piece of written work produced in every subject. It doesn't have to marked in any specific way but it does need to show evidence that the child is able to meet the standards for Y6.

mrz · 20/02/2017 10:40

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2016-teacher-assessment-exemplification-ks2-english-writing

nat73 · 20/02/2017 11:01

TBH this is what I had feared :-(. they said the writing had to be 'unmarked' and for some children they did not have enough 'pieces' of writing to tick all the boxes so the children failed because they did not meet the requirement (not because the standard was not good enough).

I did ask 2 of the governors before I went to the HT and they gave the same story.

How far in advance did the notes about writing Marking come out? In the March for the May?

Mrz should I take away that my school doesn't know what its doing??

mrz · 20/02/2017 11:13

I'd be inclined to believe they are making excuses to placate parents.
Last year was a disaster because schools were drip fed information and teachers were looking for last minute clarifications about expectations but the moderation process itself didn't change greatly from previous years. If the head had said they didn't know exactly what standards children had to demonstrate until very late in the year then I would have agreed. However that doesn't mean they didn't have time to ensure that work reflected those standards. It sounds as if they just haven't done enough writing.

mrz · 20/02/2017 11:19

Initial advice on writing was published in October 2015 and revised in February then March.
Moderation guidance was published in December 2015

nat73 · 20/02/2017 11:19

I suspect you are right. Progress between KS1 and KS2 for writing and maths were both in the bottom 10% of schools, which I also asked about. They blamed this on the KS1 teacher being too effective!!!

mrz · 20/02/2017 11:21

Which also suggests the KS2 teachers were less effective or sat back and rested on the KS1 teachers efforts.

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nat73 · 20/02/2017 11:28

Mmm I asked why they couldnt maintain her momentum but there was no response...
Our child is coming to the end of KS1 this year so its whether we:

persist with the school (where she is very happy but we suspect not very stretched),
or get her tutoring (which the school wont like)
or move her to another school (smaller primary school with only 6! in a year group which she wont be pleased about or 1 hour minibus ride to private school).

I just wish our school which is a 15 min walk away could move to 2nd gear...

HalleLouja · 20/02/2017 11:30

Part of the problem our school had was that the year 6 teacher who is very good spent quite a chunk of the year off work. Which really didn't help.

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mrz · 20/02/2017 11:35

Year 6 is too late to make a real difference. Learning needs to be sustained over the 7 years of full time education

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