Non decodable books in reception

[Sleeperandthespindle]

My DS was so excited to bring home his first book with words today - then disheartened to find he couldn't read it. He is doing well with blending with the phonemes and graphemes he knows, but of course hasn't been taught 'pp', 'er' and 'wh' yet.
Is it worth mentioning this to school? They must know that it's utterly pointless sending home such books? There's a printed page at the front of the reading record that mentions 'looking for clues' and 'encourage to guess'...

[Sleeperandthespindle]

Off to the library this morning. We have some quite good decodable books around phase 4-5 but he needs some with fewer words for now.

[CJCreggsGoldfish]

So, how do you teach a four year old to sound 'a' as 'o' in 'was', but 'a' as 'a' in 'hat', without some sight reading involved? Genuine question there, as I'm a bit baffled. I didn't learn to read this way so it's all new to me.

[mrz]

When was the last time you used a picture clue to read a word bob?

[Sleeperandthespindle]

CJ, ideally you give them books they CAN decode until you have taught them how to decode 'was' as described above.

[ClockMakerSue]

Mrz you are wrong about so many things here. Phonetic decoding is one strategy for reading. Picture cues help to develop context cue strategy. Alternative pronounciations for phonemes are not taught until much later.

[TeacherBob]

mrz reading a dinosaur book. Man those things are buggers :p

[ClockMakerSue]

OP, I agree that it's annoying when not fully decodable books are sent home when that is the main strategy being taught. The odd word, such as 'spaceman' would be OK if there was a spaceman in the picture for example, but word after word would be disheartening.

[CJCreggsGoldfish]

Thank you Sleeper. Can I ask though, what is the harm is learning some words by sight? It's been discussed on this thread that decodable books are often very boring, if learning some words by sight enhances the reading experience by making more interesting stories, and thus engaging the child more, is that really a bad thing? I know I might be coming off goady, I'm just interested. I've had a quick google but just found lots of info about high frequency words they need to learn (split into decodable and tricky).

[ReallyTired]

Dd's school used dandelion readers, song birds, floppy phonics books in reception. She wasn't allowed to progress to non decodable books until year 1. In year 1 biff and chip was fine as she had the decoding skills to cope 99% of the time.

Biff and chip are not appriopiate for a beginner. I suggest you read him the story and get him some phonic readers to practice with at home. We used Ruth Miskin books and Jelly and Bean books at home. The Oxford Owl website has some free decodable e books,

[mrz]

You can accurately read Arrhinoceratops from the picture Bob?

[mrz]

You can accurately read Arrhinoceratops from the picture Bob?

[ClockMakerSue]

It's important to teach some words by sight early on. Early fully phontically decodable books can be so contrived that they're not like any story they've heard.

[mrz]

Why?

[ClockMakerSue]

For the reason I just said. Some words are not decodable for early readers as they haven't been taught (rightly so) alternative pronounciations for every phoneme.

[mrz]

Clockmaker " The odd word, such as 'spaceman' would be OK" what if the child doesn't know the word spaceman and looks at the picture and says astronaut or alien ... It's why picture clues aren't a good strategy to teach

[Sleeperandthespindle]

He did say spaceman, because he attempted to decode, then guessed the rest. If there had been a 'spacecraft' or a 'spanner' in the picture as well, he may not have been so lucky.

As for decodable books being contrived, this tragic excuse for a story was certainly no better! I don't need to read it to him as we have many much more interesting and enjoyable books for me to read.

[GraceGrape]

The early decodable books can be quite dull, this is true. There is only so much you can write using only CVC words. However, practising reading these words is a necessary skill in developing reading. I wouldn't say the ORT books are riveting! The best thing to do of course is to continue reading a range of books to your child that they will enjoy hearing alongside practising their decoding skills with appropriate books.

[claraschu]

Someone gave me some sets of fully decodable books, which started off incredibly simple and built up logically from there. They were good for beginning readers:

www.amazon.co.uk/Books-First-Bobby-Lynn-Maslen/dp/0439845009?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[TeacherBob]

mrz you don't have to be so snotty when given a decent answer to a question you thought you could trip me up on.

Also, if a child is saying 'alien' to the word spaceman, they aren't using picture clues, they are guessing.
Using the picture clue would be sounding out s and p and then using the picture to fill in any gaps.
If they don't know what a spaceman is, then that is where a good discussion comes in, which again is very fundamental to early reading.

Or are you just advocating children decode cvc words, have pictures with no books and not understand the meaning behind what they read?

[TeacherBob]

And if I wanted to be a bit of an arse like you, I would point out that spaceman is fully decodable.

Nothing wrong with being exposed to sounds that are yet to be learnt.

What was the full sentence?

[Sleeperandthespindle]

Of course 'spaceman' is fully decodable. But not for this only just 4 year old at the end of his first full week of school!

My point (maybe clumsily made on a Friday evening) was that he'd been well taught for three weeks at school. Knew his m, a, t, p, I, n, s and could blend and segment cvc word using them. Excited to get a 'school book with words' and then found he couldn't use his new skills at all.

[Mistoffelees]

I totally get your points mrz but some schools, mine included have pressure from SLT and year one for a high percentage of children to go up reading as many high frequency words as possible so learning them by sight is the only option, if this is the case at the OPs school and they feel so strongly about it I would suggest that a previous posters suggestion of not being compatible sounds about right. I would disagree with the idea of not using pictures to help with comprehension though, I don't ask the children to guess the words however, I tell them the word then we talk about the pictures.

[ClockMakerSue]

Actually, with 'spaceman' they'd be encouraged to look at the picture and the first letter of the word; 's'. 'A' is the first sound taught so they could use the strategies together to read the word. Great reading skill!

[JassyRadlett]

CJ, ideally you give them books they CAN decode until you have taught them how to decode 'was' as described above

But isn't decoding 'was' always going to have an element of guessing/using context or pictures to decide which of the many 'a' sounds to use, until the child is sight reading?

I think 'fully decodable' is a little disingenuous when so many letters or combos in English make different sounds. And it undermines the layperson's faith in phonics because it is stretching things so far to suggest a word like 'was' or 'through' is ever going to be fully decodable purely using phonics, and using neither context nor experience/practice.

[TeacherBob]

Sleeperandthespindle sorry that comment from me wasn't aimed at you.

Regarding your point though, I think you and a lot of people on this thread are kind of misunderstanding a little.

When a child gets a book, they need to know about 80% of the words to be able to read it with understanding.

In your example he has learnt the first 7 sounds. (was the l supposed to be an i btw?)
Now, let's suppose we could make an interesting story just from those seven sounds, for ease of understanding. He will know all of the sounds and will thus be practicing what he already knows and not learning or consolidating. Trust me, the initial excitement will wear off very fast and he will soon become bored from reading.

As words go, spaceman is a great one for early reading.

I am popping out now, but if you tell me the complete sentence on the page, I can talk about it with better knowledge as I am guessing a bit now.

Hope that helps