Clash with teacher and principal over .... textbooks. AIBU? Help meeting tomorrow!

[TheAussieProject]

I have reached an impasse with my son's teacher and principal and I honestly don't know if I AIBU or not, so before our meeting tomorrow, give me some thoughts. I am truly lost.

We moved to Australia from Spain 18 months ago. Before coming here, my son spoke 4 languages but none of these was English (our previous posts were in Spain, Italy and Switzerland ). He started with 2 months of Y2, and I knew from the teacher that he didn't understand a word but was happy and trying.

January last year , he started Y3, during all the year I was told he was doing fine, improving , learning, lovely boy , bla bla . I could only listen to her words, as the school policy forbids bringing textbooks home so I had no clue about school work and achievements. Mid year report was good. Teacher was praising him.

So on my happy pink cloud until December when my son brings home all his textbooks. Big massive shock. Phrases which makes no sense, incomplete works , messy texts, illegible pages. A complete difference from what the textbooks he had in the previous years. His level has worsen, handwriting has turned a disaster when mixing the European cursive with the Australian print and even the drawings are senseless .

This January, I asked the Y4 teacher if I could have my son's textbooks home from time to time to help identify all the gaps he still had in English and help him get organized by going through his work, have him find his own mistakes, and let him tell me what he founds difficult, and so on. I am French and in France, you learn from very young to spend 10 minutes per day to re-read what has been done in class, finish whatever was left incomplete , so you consolidate what you have learned that day.

Big clash and total refusal to let me see my son’s textbooks. They tell me I can see them in the class but whenever I ask to (3 times since January) , there are excuses or meetings in the principal office, never in the class where the textbooks are. Meanwhile the teacher has changed her attitude towards my son (even if I haven’t commented on this with her) and she tells me I need to work with him, he doesn’t get the English phonics, and more and more critics. I am more than happy to help, when I requested to provide a plan, I was told it will be discussed at the next meeting.

So now I get to the point: is it a cultural clash? No access to textbooks is normal and whatever request considered an offence? My wish has nothing to do with judging the teacher, her teaching or the class. I just want to help my son because a student that struggles in Y4 will struggle in Y9 if nothing is done. I want to see what he writes, challenge him to write more articulate sentences than “they did lots of cool stuff” and understands his weaknesses such as its and it’s, force him to keep nice textbooks until (hopefully it becomes an habit) , ...

I am a nightmare mother? A true pian in the A… ? Should I back off? I am getting nowhere and only achieving an hatred .
What am I doing wrong and what should I do?
Thanks in advance

[slkk]

I allow books home when asked if a parent wants to support a child. If they didn't come back I would no longer allow it but would welcome a parent in to see them weeklY/ whenever.

[user789653241]

I really wish you good luck sorting this out.
There was nothing wrong with what you did. You just wanted best for your dc. If the teacher is doing what you think she is doing, she is wrong 100%.
Good luck.

[TheAussieProject]

Thank you everyone!

[JerryFerry]

Look, if your son feels happy at school and has good friends, that is huge. Fantastic achievement for a new child who didn't want to move country. I know you are anxious for him to pick up academically but please don't underestimate the enormous amount of work he has put into adjusting to his new life and language.

Wrt the isolation, that is not at all cool and I would want to know why that was happening. Can you email the teacher to ask in a very gentle way? Just so they don't feel attacked (not to suggest you are attacking but some teachers are v touchy)

Good move on the tutor, I imagine that one to one support will be invaluable.

Other suggestions: sign up to an online maths tutor like Math Buddy. Mathletics is pretty crap really but Math Buddy and Math Whizz are good, and you will be able to follow exactly where your son is at. There is also Spelling City if you feel concerned about his spelling.

With language, I would suggest downloading audio books for him to listen to so he hears plenty of spoken English in a relaxed situation. He may like to read along for example to The Wimpy Kid series.

Other than that I would back off. You have done brilliantly to get your son so settled so quickly, the rest will follow.

Oh, and yes, it is called the Learning Journey, and you will hear a lot about life skills and tools. All normal.

[Ellle]

I second irvine's post. In the friendliest and non confrontational way possible, bring up the issue that your DS is feeling isolated as he doesn't understand the new seating arrangements. Then, see what her reaction is and whether there is a good reason that explains it. If it is true that she now dislikes your son and is somehow bullying him, then follow whatever the school procedure is to formally complain about it.

That is if your son is really getting affected with the daily occurrences (seating arrangements, not being able to show his project, etc). If on the other hand, he is not too bothered by it, then maybe wait until the school year finishes and hopefully the next teacher will be better. It sounds like you DS is doing well academically now that you know what to expect with the Australian curriculum and the things he does at home with you and the tutor. Good luck at the parent's evening!

[user789653241]

Exactly! If the teacher cannot give you valid/decent reason for doing this, you have a reason to complain. It is so unfair to bully a child using her position as teacher.

[TheAussieProject]

Zazz101 there are no books so no book list but thanks to many lovely Netters I have bought NSW curriculum books and we are working on these.
irvineoneohone I can't really imagine her admitting to dislike my son. I will tell my husband to just ask why.

[user789653241]

If there is no obvious reason, and he feels isolated, I would ask teacher why.
If the reason is what you suspect, it's out of order. Unacceptable.

[Zazz101]

when I lived in Aus, every year the children get a book list. You then need to buy all the books for school so you know exactly what your children are working on. I brought extra copies of the English and Maths. I then just spent 10-15 minutes a night doing a few pages out of the work books to help the children catch up. I hope,that helps.

[TheAussieProject]

I have no idea why he is isolated nor does my son know why.
It started when they reorganised the room and all children changed place. The teacher just told my son to sit there and has left him there since.

He isn't working on something different. He is in the group 4 for spelling. At the beginning I thought the 4th group out of 5 was one of the weakest only to discover it goes the other way round and he is actually in the second best. The same with math, he recently received an award for working at an extension level which of course confuses me even more.

There are other small things which taken separately are insignificant, but just sum up. Like being the only one not showing his project works to the class for example two weeks in a row.
It seems to me she has taken a great dislike in him and I am very sorry about this as it all started because of my request of having a look at his work.

I will send my husband to the teacher meeting.

[sashh]

What I would suggest is getting some kind of workbooks to work on at home, like you say 10 mins 1to1 a day will make so much difference

^^This

May I suggest a diary as a good way to do this, not detailed thoughts and feelings more 'Today at school...'

[user789653241]

Why is he isolated? Did teacher tell him the reason?
My ds had separate island seat in YR2, simply because he was doing completely different things from others in class. So when whole class teaching was going on, he was left to work on his own. He understood the reason, so he wasn't bothered.

[TheAussieProject]

An update which is not really an update as nothing has changed.

The teacher hasn't given me a plan, advice or even a suggestion about what to do to help my son and I haven't certainly approached her to remind her of it. I haven't spoken to the teacher since April if not for a good morning if I cross her path in the school.

We are working on our own and doing brilliantly. I have purchased a home licence for mathletics and readingeggspress, we are going through the KhanAcademy, and some of the books suggested here. DS2 is also going to a lovely tutor who helps him for the writing part.

As I wrote several weeks ago, the teacher's attitude has changed towards DS2. For the last 6 weeks he has been sitting on his own at the back of the class. The classroom is organised with 4 tables forming islands in the class. My son has been moved to the back and been sitting alone in a 4 table island. He is not disturbing the class and I know from other mums their sons have been sent to the thinking room several times for disturbing the class or have received white slips for chatting. My son hasn't.

So now I have a dilemma again. Should I approach the teacher and ask why my son is isolated or have I done enough damage for the year? I don't think any child but especially the only foreign child in a classroom should be kept isolated for 6 weeks!

Next week is parent-teacher meetings week. If she starts to highlight issues my son has, should I gently remind her she has already done so but failed to give me a plan to address them.

Grrrr I guess I just needed to vent here. I will obviously say nothing, just nod, and tell my son to be stoic for the next six months.... even if the seating arraignment bothers him.

[TheAussieProject]

kesstrel it sounds very familiar indeed! One of the "big" homework my Y8 son had to do was to make a Facebook Page for one of the great figure of the Middle Ages. So he spent hours for the design, a little researching Saladin, very little on the Crusades (the when and who but not the Why) and nothing on the Islamic conquest.

Needmoresleep , in French you wouldn't never have the word fun and school in the same sentence. Miserable would certainly be a more suitable adjective. I used to work on my homework everyday till 10 pm (at least) easily midnight on the day before an exam.

Jenny70 Still holidays here. School is back on Wednesday. I will definitely not approach the teacher anymore. I've asked for suggestions, plan, advice and she hasn't given me any. The funny thing is a six weeks ago when I had asked her how he was doing she was all "fine, very well, he obviously had some exposure to English before, and I have to stop him because he always has his hand up and we need to let the other children speak". But then after I asked to see his textbooks , she must have gone through them more deeply all at once because when I meet her it was only critics, critics, and more critics but not a single word about how addressing every issue and not a single word of praise.

Since we came back from New Caledonia last week, he has been twice to a tutor, who has told me he is far better at English than many of her Australian students, he has different kind of difficulties. He has also started Eggspress which he enjoys (so thank you to whoever suggested it) .

The fact is he likes reading a lot, but his favourite books are Tom Gates and Geronimo Stilton not the best source of vocabulary I am afraid, so we are reading more serious books together. Understanding is one thing but producing something written or oral is another. That's the weakness the tutor has identified and they are working on this and of course some of the sounds. He has ideas but putting them into phrases is not so easy.

This thread has helped me a lot. So many comments to think about. The more I read you, the less I am impressed by the teacher.

Again a massive thank you to all of you. I will keep you updated.

[citykat]

Have been following with interest. I think you sound entirely sensible OP. My 6 year old was doing Mathletics last night and there was a whole section called Rainforest Maths that had the Australian years/grades so you could see what the work was like. It was much more colourful than the standard section.

[Jenny70]

We are educating in Australia, having started education overseas and I understand it is overwhelming to understand the different educational approaches. I (foolishly) believed early learning teaching of reading, writing and maths would be fairly universal, as it's the basics etc. Not so, as you now see.

BUT I think the school is failing you in their communication and support.

I can go to the class any time to see my child's work, I can make an appointment any day to see my child's teacher to discuss either specific work, overall concerns etc.

As an example, a friend's boy needs some educational support and she was worried he was slipping, despite the previous year having worked so hard to catch up. She met every week with the teacher, to discuss how he'd done, how his learning had been supported etc. Now I am sure that teacher finds my friend a pain to meet with, but he is still meeting her every week to discuss her son's progress (and let's just say he's improved since the meetings begun).

But the key here is how to engage with the school again? His report last year, did that reflect his poor progress? Would that be a starting point, to discuss how his learning in those weaker areas is being supported, do they have any intervention classes etc.

In terms of his creativitiy I think language is key here, when you are speaking a "foreign" language it takes a long time to be able to express yourself clearly and to think of ideas etc. Reading is the key here, is he interested to read english books? Harry Potter, How to Train your Dragon?

[Needmoresleep]

Its interesting.

I am grateful for the English system as DD is dyslexic, good at maths but awful at English, and would have struggled elsewhere. I also had some good advice early on from a friend who is a deputy head, to make sure she kept up with the basics in maths and English even if it involved tutoring, as if she fell behind it would bleed into other subjects.

We are in Central London and DD has always done a lot of extra curricular, often involving students from the Lycee as well as a host of other schools. Observation I know, but I think it is fair to say that though the occassional child was unhappy in the occassional school, the Lycee kids seemed to enjoy their education less that those in the English system and had to work a lot harder. Indeed there was regular movement from there to English schools, as parents decided that the aim was access to English (and sometimes American or Canadian) rather than French Universities.

(One dad commented that the day his girls left the Lycee was the day they started to enjoy school.)

Another observation, backed up at times by postings on MN, is that French Parents are often far more involved in their children's education than English ones would expect to be. At times this can irritate. I still have memories when DS was about 6, of a perfectly nice French mother who rushed in to discuss their child's progress with the teacher at seemingly the end of every school day, unaware that others might occassionally want to have a word. This hands on approach seems to continue through to University and work experience and beyond. I think I shocked one poor mother, who was starting to write her child's Personal Statement for her University application and was seeking advice, by confessing I never read my son's.

I assume different systems suit different children. Certainly some would benefit if their parents were more hands-on. Maybe some would benefit if their parents were more hands off.

My advice would be to get him support for English and do some internet maths games (there are lots of suggestions on other MN threads) and then rather than focus too much on what he is learning in school and structures, encourage an interest in learning at home. So watch wildlife and historical documentaries, visit museums when you at home, encourage reading, discuss the news and provide some context. That sort of thing. Its not that school should be fun, but that learning should be fun. If he gets that, it will take him a long way.

[kesstrel]

OP - here is another blogpost that might interest you. It's a guest post written by an Australian mother of two girls age 10 and 12. The bit I've put in bold sounds familiar, doesn't it?

" When my children first went to school (Prep) I actually believed the current philosophy. I believed that children would learn naturally, I thought learning through play sounded wonderful, I thought a classroom that wasn’t filled with pretty pictures and painted boxes was an indication that the teacher was boring and didn’t understand the students’ creative needs. But I was blind, blinded by the edu-bling. I never stopped to ask what the edu-jargon meant, I never wondered how much my kids where learning when they spent a major part of their time doing craft, painting or having group discussions rather than being taught by the teacher. I thought learning should be fun. As long as they were happy, right? It was only when my eldest started struggling in maths that I began to wonder and ask questions about how she was being taught and what she was being taught. After a while my questions were met with hostility and I was branded “one of those parents”."
gregashman.wordpress.com/2016/04/23/an-aussie-parent-writes/

[kesstrel]

Oops! Wrong thread!

[kesstrel]

I've just read this article, which I think is really, really perceptive and well-argued:

fathomjournal.org/the-left-and-the-jews-time-for-a-rethink/

[prettybird]

I too read your contributions in the way you describe TheAussieProject: you've always tried to be constructive and work out how you can best support your ds in his Aussie education.

I admire the way that have continued to be positive. Yes, you have frustrations (and I don't think any of us, even when very happy with our children's schools in general, haven't come across the odd issue) but you've used this forum to air them/vent and get different perspectives.

[kesstrel]

Excellent post, OP. That's exactly how I've read your contributions to this thread.

[TheAussieProject]

I have never said education in Australia is inferior.

I have happily followed the system for 15 months. When I realised my son was having difficulties, I asked after 15 months if I could see his schoolwork to identify his (mainly language related) weaknesses and help him. It was never said to me, "no, you can't ", on the contrary I was told, you cannot take them home, but you are welcome to look at them in the classroom. So I asked to see for a total of 3 times in 3 months . But never was access given to me. So I started helping him at home the best I could only to be told it was done the wrong way (mental vs algorithm). I have asked for the teacher if she could give me suggestions or plan, she hasn't. She talks about creativity, the journey of learning but hasn't given me a single piece of practical advice.

I came here and asked about the way things are done to avoid reaching a breaking point and from there the discussion shifted on how parents are involved in helping with homework and a general interesting and polite discussion about difference between systems. I have criticized the French system and explained which I didn't send my children to their school network. So I did not criticize the Australian system but mine.

The schoolbooks are long forgotten. Many MNetters have given me precious suggestions and links and help me understand the way things are done. There was also a chat with consideration about how creativity and language might be linked.

I have never claimed here or to the teacher my experience in different systems gives me the skills to judge one system or another.

What I am saying ,here, is that if you have the work done in class at home everyday it makes things easier to help a child if he has difficulties. Especially if mathletics has the activities hidden, so you can do the tasks but then you don't see the topic or if the homework sheet sent home is a list of spelling activities for a given list in which you must write the vowels in colours or change the letter into a number, e.g. A=1, B=2, ... or write in bubble letter. So you have no idea what and how things are done at school.

I didn't mean to offend anyone and my apologies if you have thought so.

[user789653241]

When I asked the teacher if my ds can bring home his workbooks in the past, she said no. And I didn't argue, because it wasn't a big deal. But I really didn't understand why. Now I do. You can't make exceptions. You can't let one child take home something and say no to others. Now I really understand, and it's very reasonable.(when you know the proper reason why.)

[teacherwith2kids]

"But Midnite, people always used to take exercise books home."

Not at PRIMARY, IME. I attended 5 different primaries, 4 in this country and 1 an English system' school elsewhere, in the late 1970s, and never took a book home from any of them, except at the end of the year (or when I left, which was often mid-year). Mind you, I didn't have homework from any of those schools either - like primary uniform, primary homework has become a 'thing' in the years since i was a child.

Taking exercise books home in SECONDARY is normal, and always has been IME.