do schools have the right?

[itsallornothing]

Do schools have the right to not allow your child to go to the toilet when they need to go?? Mortified and furious that my DS came home sobbing today because he asked to go to the toilet and the head teacher said no? He said he told her he was going to wee himself, she said apparently "not yet we are in the middle of assembly" my son then started crying and raised his voice at her "but I need a wee and I might wee myself" he then had his break time taken away from him as he was rude by raising his voice at her? plus my son is currently being assessed for ADHD and autism!

[ChinchillaFur]

How did it go itsallornothing ? Did you get anything resolved and a plan put in place going forwards? I really felt for you and your ds.

[itsallornothing]

Thanks patch.. I'm going to in the morning, endless problems with that sodding school, Iv had enough xx

[patchesmcp]

I don't blame you for being furious, I really feel for your DS I'd be arranging a meeting with the head to get her side of the story, but I can't think of many circumstances in which it is acceptable to say no to a 5 year old going to the loo.

[itsallornothing]

Thank you, Irvine, it literally is one extreme to the other at times. Bless them, it must be so nerve wracking and stressful for them xx

[itsallornothing]

I'm proud of him he held it for long and was so polite and patient. Very proud he contained himself so well and he is not in any circumstances in any trouble for raising his voice at her!! I don't know how to calm down from this. He's such a good boy to be honest and accepts most things considering, my son now feels sad that he shouted because he says it's not kind! He should not feel guilty for this thanks for all your comments, i really appreciate your support xx

[user789653241]

My ds has asd traits. He can be really focused on something. He forgets everything else. I have experienced so many times that one minute he didn't need to go, next, he was desperate. So, if I know he can't go for while, I really need to make sure he goes now. soapboxqueen's suggestion of using his name might be good for your ds.
My ds is 8 now, and he can control it now. So, it gets better.

[itsallornothing]

Thank you you're right. Iv been waiting for the SENCO to meet with me for over a month now, Iv asked several times when? and I'm not given an answer because they don't know when. Once a week they do a celebration assembly that lasts an hour, they celebrate awards, birthdays and met targets. Today was an hour long. He needed a wee before assembly and was told in a minute and 45 minutes into the assembly he began to raise his voice and cry after asking her for a while. Apparently she said you should have gone before assembly and he said I asked Mrs.. So and so and she said in a minute and apparently Mrs. So and so said nothing another patent said!

[soapboxqueen]

If he's now deciding he doesn't want to drink to avoid needing the loo, I think you need to have a sit down with his class teacher and maybe the senco to create a plan for him regarding drinking and toileting etc.

Maybe they need to make an effort to remind him to go. Actually use his name rather than a class wide 'does anyone need the toilet'. Make other staff aware that he may feel the urge very suddenly and act accordingly.

[user789653241]

I can understand all the things PP says, that the child should have gone during play time, or should be able to hold it for 15~20 minutes, but in reality, I don't think so. Just putting a hand up must have taken quite a lot of courage.

[itsallornothing]

Good advice but I'm so mad!! All the hard work to even get him to drink at school s demolished. He wouldn't drink and would feel quite unwell and dehydrated especially in the warmer weather, he didn't want a drink do he didn't need the loo. He's just asked me not to pack him a drink tomorrow and cried when I said he needed to have a drink, he hasn't asked me to not put a drink in for months!!

[itsallornothing]

There celebration assembly's are an hour long, I know because I attend most of them. However today I couldn't as I had an appointment for my youngest child. He had 3 awards to collect but wasn't allowed them because he was rude. He's said he kept asking because he felt a bit of wee in his pants and was scared more was coming out yeah he does struggle with things at the last minute, very much so, he does require a lot of support and they know all this as we have had endless meetings and put things in place to support him. My friend and one of the patents who was in the assembly just backed up my sons story and said he even put his hand over his own mouth to stop himself asking whilst she was speaking and to try and stop himself crying I'm so fuming she put my son in the situation. Tomorrow morning will not be a good one for her!

[itsallornothing]

He said he put his hand up and the head said yes to him. He asked politely and she said no you need to wait. He expressed he was desperate and she shushed him. He's never rude or unkind in any way and considering his difficulties in situations he comes home with certificates quite often for being well behaved and kind. This was his first time where he was "rude". I do not think he was intentionally rude, he was worried he was going to wee himself in front of the whole school, teachers and a bunch of parents. Xx

[mrz]

Schools don't have to let children go to the toilet whenever they ask but it's normal to allow younger children and those with know toileting issues free access.
Having said that the medical advice is that at age 4 a child will need to visit the toilet approx every 2 hours which should mean that they make it through assembly if they went before school.

[user789653241]

I think it's quite harsh not let 5 year old go to the toilet when they need it.
They are just getting used to go at certain times, and it's still difficult for some children.

My ds wet himself when he just started school, because dinner lady said he can't go until he has finished his lunch, and he couldn't hold it anymore. He done it sitting on the chair... My ds just laughed with a bit of embarrassment, but if it happened to sensitive child, could have been really traumatising.

I think the HT should have let him go.

[admission]

If the truth is that the head teacher point blank refused to allow son to go to the toilet when clearly in some distress, then I think that the head teacher is at fault.
However context is everything, if your son was the 5th pupils to make such a request that somewhat alters the head's response. The other question I would want to be asking is when was son in a position to last go to the toilet. If they had just had playtime, then no sympathy for him. If he had been in a lesson for an hour and then marched into assembly, school possibly needs to think about an appropriate toilet break before the assembly.

[itsallornothing]

It's ok no problem need. I forgot to put his age in the post, he's only 5 and struggles daily in general with suspected ADHD and autism, he needs a lot of preparation for most things, always needs to know in advance what he's doing and what he needs to do before doing a certain something. Classic example is when we are about to go out we encourage him to go for a wee and if he says no we say well just try,. Then when he tries he goes for a long wee, the school are aware of his needs for preparation and prompts. He's very sensitive and anxious too so if he needs a wee, as soon as he realises it become quite painful to him and he begins to panic about weeing himself. They are also aware of this. He is quite an honest child and told me that he said he needed a wee before going to assembly and the teacher said in a minute but then rushed all the children into the hall because they were late. I do not care if they were late the teacher should be more organised, I don't care if he needs a wee in the middle of assembly if he needs to go then he needs to go, he's a child with difficulties and couldn't cope with feeling anxious about weeing himself and being told no he couldn't go to the toilet! Not only him, any child being refused a toilet when needed! Also his health and emotional well being is more important than an assembly! He's now lost trust and comfort with her and feels she's not a nice person. He held it desperately and not his privates sting!! It's not fair and it's not on, he's just said to me he didn't feel nice shouting at her and that he was sorry he was rude and said he tried to ask politely but she kept saying no and shushing him. xx

[Fedup21]

It is actually pretty rare for children to leave assemblies to go to the toilet in my experience. It can lead to a load of hands up also fancying a bit of a skive off to the toilets so it is not to be encouraged. Most teachers are pretty adept at telling when a child is desperate-they are generally wriggling/hopping, have pink cheeks and are (if they are a boy!) are usually clutching their bits!! I would never say no to a child in that situation.

By this stage of the year, I wouldn't expect a child to be shouting out in assembly to the head saying they needed the toilet-this would usually be dealt with quietly by the class teacher. Who knows though-maybe the head was taking assembly on her own.


Whoever said that teachers don't have the right to deny a child access to the toilet...,do you have a link to that, please? Are you a teacher in the UK?

[soapboxqueen]

Tbh it is pretty unusual for a child to go out of assembly to go to the toilet. Most assemblies are 15 to 20 minutes max. Most children find them boring so you'd get a steady stream of children going if it was the done thing.

However, if it was a young child, particularly in distress, I would have expected the head to ask a member of staff to take them to the toilet.

Does your ds often leave things until the last minute? I only say that because my ds with asd does that. It's like a sensory thing. So you may need to explain to the staff that they need to ensure he goes before such things as assembly so there isn't a reoccurance.

In short, the school don't have a right to stop him but neither as he a right to go as and when he chooses.

[Lovelilies2]

He's only 5 Need.
I'd be