After school clubs that parents have to attend.

[JustALittlePeacePlease]

My 5 year old is currently in year 1, for the past 2 terms his school have run after school clubs which were frequently described as first come first serve with limited spaces. They were only open to years 1 and 2 which I assumed was mainly to do with their being lack people to supervise the kids.

This term, however, things are different, they are now including all years but the vast majority of after school clubs parents now HAVE to attend with their child otherwise their child can not go and siblings are not able to attend. There are 5 after school clubs and only one of them if open to all children without parents although of course spaces are limited. The clubs, are cooking, art/craft, Lego, Eco and Gymnastics (gymnastics is the one open to all, I guess they don't want parents on their balance beams).

The reason we can't attend is that I have no one who can look after my 3 year old whilst I spend an hour at the school, friends who I might usually ask will be picking their own children during that time and my family are 45 mins away. This also affects parents who have to pick other children up at different times, the school has a nursery that doesn't finish until 3.30 so those parents will be unable to a attend with the children and the junior school next door also doesn't finish until 3.30. The school also wants the same parent to attend each week as they will be working on projects so you can not share it. To my mind the only people who will be able tatted are those with one child or those with access to family members and or other childcare they can call upon.

I tried to speak with the Deputy Head about this as she was the one that signed the letter but she became very defensive, her first response to me being that they don't have to run them, and the second being that they wanted to encourage parents who WANTED to engage with their children in a learning environment. There are plenty of things I should have responded to that the least of which being that it isn't about wanting to it is about those that can, sadly I am 14 weeks pregnant and my hormones ran away with me and I had to leave the school immediately before they saw me burst into tears.

I am aware the school doesn't have to offer after school clubs and I am very grateful they do so, but, IMO unless they can be fair they really shouldn't bother. Am I right in thinking that this new system is extremely unfair and has anybody else come across a system like this? Should I take further action if so what?

Thanks for reading (smile)

[ItsAllKickingOffPru]

You could write to the Governing Body, particularly if these are the only after school activities on offer. It will exclude an awful lot of children, as you say.
They might be funded by a specific pot of money that has to be used for activities involving parents, but to have all of them requiring parental attendance does seem very unfair.

I've come across a couple of activities like this but they certainly didn't represent all the school had to offer in the way of after school provision. They were set up to promote parental engagement and aimed at certain cohorts within the school (although opened up to others if there was space).

[MonoNoAware]

I wonder if it might be better to approach it from the perspective of allowing parents to bring siblings along with them. It won't help everyone, but unless space is a huge issue, it should be manageable for them to implement. You could drop in phrases like 'whole family learning' and voice concerns that the current set up is likely to exclude many parents and children who could really benefit from it. If you are planning on taking your DC anyway, you could even offer to help provide activities for younger DC whilst you are there (e.g. by setting up a duplo corner in lego club, etc)

[soapboxqueen]

Tbh I think bringing it to the attention of the deputy that some parents might find this difficult is enough. If many parents find it difficult to attend they will just not run them again. If any other parent's tell you they can't attend, get them to mention it to the deputy too.

However, The deputy is right in that they don't have to offer any of these clubs and if they aren't bringing in outside club leaders, the staff will be running them out of their own time. If the point of these particular clubs is to encourage parents involvement then the parents have to be there for this to occur.

Also it might seem simple to allow siblings to attend but these things quickly descend into anarchy as other siblings get bored, fractious and don't want to listen to the instructions being given. That's assuming that the room they're holding the club in can hold that many people.

[JustALittlePeacePlease]

Thank you everyone. I suspect I am just feeling bit sensitive about this at the moment because it was me that had to calm down a crying child who couldn't understand why he couldn't go to cooking club.

Personally, I can totally understand why siblings can't attend, I know for a fact my 3 year old would cause havoc. I can't really understand how it will work anyway, there are approximately 230 children at that school, if even 50 parents and kids want to attend thats 100 people they have to accommodate.

I feel like they are trying to control the numbers of children that attend without actually saying it. I think I might try and calmly speak to either the head or deputy again just to try and find out a bit more info regarding their reasoning etc.

[soapboxqueen]

It might be as simple as they have to show for Ofsted how they are engaging with parents and carers. Encouraging learning outside of school etc

[MidniteScribbler]

If your school is anything like ours, then the teacher chooses to run the afterschool club, and therefore can run it any way they like, with any criteria they choose. Quite frankly, I wouldn't run a cooking club for Year 1s without a parent being present to supervise either.

There is no obligation for schools to run any sort of clubs, and if you keep complaining, then you'll find less teachers willing to give up their afternoons to run these events. The problem is when parents think that after school clubs are supposed to be 'child care' and start getting huffy when it has to be cancelled for some reason, or doesn't quite fit in with their own particular working hours.

[mrz]

I run a cookery club and openly restrict the number of children (and their age) who can attend for safety reasons. When children are using sharp knives, boiling water, hot hobs and ovens I needs to be able to ensure children's safety.

[PekeandPollicle]

The schools in my area seem to recognise that after school care is childcare and make it available to children with working parents rather than excluding them completely.

It doesn't seem fair to me, Op, but then it wouldn't as I'm a Wohm with more than one child!

[mrz]

Sorry but I wouldn't run a club as childcare in my own time when I could be at home with my own family i run the club for the kids!

[manchestermummy]

I think the main issue here is not allowing siblings. I am sure most parents (I speak for myself!) wouldn't want to be trying to participate whilst trying to deal with a toddler, but often it just isn't possible to leave them! A club straight after school is likely to only be accessible by children of SAHPs, so therefore, the likelihood is that any other children of the family aren't in any sort of childcare setting.

Of course they can run it in any way they want, but it's not exactly inclusive, is it. I had a similar issue with a PTA disco where they were saying they weren't prepared to collect children from after school club to attend: I suggested it was unfair to not allow children to attend just because a parent works.

My friend cannot attend any "do maths with the kids" type sessions because all classes do it at the same time (two dc at the school so she has to pick one) and isn't allowed to bring her younger child.

I appreciate that schools cannot accommodate every permutation of family life, but sometimes I do think they don't think things through.

Besides, surely an after school club should be fostering independence? I know my dc are far more gregarious when I am not there!

[mrz]

We have lots of children who attend after school childcare attend various clubs that are immediately after school ... the childcare providers just collect the children an hour later when the clubs end.

Of course that wouldn't solve the OPs issue.
Perhaps the OP needs to consider the risks and logistical difficulties of trying to cook with unlimited groups of young children and then they may understand why there need to be rules.

[soapboxqueen]

It's not that schools don't understand the concept of parents working and being unable to attend. Many teachers are parents too and never ever get to attend these events. While having a session later on may be an option for a one off event, it couldn't happening weekly. For the simple fact that the staff have to be there. If a session started at 6 for say an hour, depending on the activity, it's going to be 7:30pm to 8 o'clock before the staff leave. Baring in mind that those staff will have a few hours work when they get home too. It isn't tenable for most.

[UniS]

It seems that what ever a school offer in the way of after school activities some people won't like what is offered. Some children will be able to attend , some won't. Just as if the attendees were chosen by lottery or by payment for places. Or by height or cycling ability or musicality.

[Bilberry]

I didn't think OP was ungrateful, after free childcare or thought that the cookery class should accept unlimited numbers. I thought she was unhappy that the rules exclude a large proportion of kids from benefitting from clubs through no fault of there own. It does not seem fair to run clubs exclusively for such a select few.

[mrz]

Perhaps the best solution us not to run the club at all?

[zipzap]

It does seem like they are trying to limit the numbers of people that can attend clubs and have worked out the way that they can limit the number of kids that can participate in activities but still say they are running clubs.

I think I'm the minority - ds1 attends a junior school where as part of their contract, all staff have to run an after school club for at least a term - even the head mistress runs one. It's fantastic - there's a token fee, but most terms there's a choice of over 40 clubs (albeit some are aimed at particular age groups or interest groups so kids are invited to attend). There's also separate after school child care that you pay for if you need that.

[mrz]

Zipzap is an academy? Because state schools can't put that in teachers' contracts as they are protected ...

[SquirmOfEels]

The solution shouldn't be to immediately withdraw the club (the 'my way of the high way').

This is not a typical way of running activities.

Cookery is bound to have limited numbers (unless the school has lots of equipped space, which is unusual in a primary), and perhaps would need volunteers to get safe supervision.

But why do the others have to be 'with-parent' activities, when they were not previously?

Running clubs which are accessible depending mainly on family employment patterns is divisive in an unpleasant way.

If the school needs to engage with parents (has it says this is a requirement, or is that simply thread speculation?) then a better way needs to be looked for than 4 or 5 afternoons at the same time all the time, in activities that other DC will notice they are excluded from. Because it should mean engaging with all parents, and that means offering a variety of times. More demanding? sure it is. That's why this is not typical.

[LePetitMarseillais]

It's clearly discriminating against children with working parents.

Hardly any job( certainly not the less well paid) is going to let you hot foot it off to school for a club.What if you have 2 or 3 children?

And sorry I ran cookery clubs for KS1 children without parents being there.Perfectly able to restrict numbers and run it safely without parents.

My dc's school doesn't have this policy and niether does the one I work in.Both manage to run all manor of clubs without parental help.If you've tried the dep head I'd try the governors next.

[Jennifersrabbit]

Wanting to involve parents fine but they need to think this through! I am also enormously appreciative of teachers and parents giving their time to run a range of clubs at our school, but I'd be disappointed in the extreme if they werent available to all kids who wanted to participate, subject to numbers. Ours has a system where you apply, state three choices, and I assume the staff sort behind the scenes that everyone gets a turn sooner or later.

Set up like that the clubs are going to be accessible to children with one stay at home parent, or one who works absolutely regular PT hours, and who has no siblings at any other school/ pre school. That's a limited bunch. For example, I nearly fit the bill (PT worker, two in school), except that I often swop my days and one of my children has SN and cannot attend paid for after school club, so I couldn't take him presumably.

Take safety and supervision point but there are other ways of addressing it - some parents might volunteer to help, for example, or keep the club small, or make some clubs parent supervised but not others if you must.

[mrz]

We often have clubs run by outside providers (quite often sports partnership clubs) who specify the year group and number of participants - recent examples are gymnastics (national coaches from regional centre) specified Y1 & 2 pupils max of 15 children leaving 45 excluded ... dance specified Y3 & 4 pupils again set 15 max leaving 50 children excluded.
We have a parkour club limited to Y6 pupils and 15 pupils. We have one hall so can't run two clubs on the same night.


There isn't a way to include every child who would like to participate ... since that's unfair how do you propose the problems are overcome SquirmOfEels and everyone has equal access?

[mrz]

I am aware the school doesn't have to offer after school clubs and I am very grateful they do so, but, IMO unless they can be fair they really shouldn't bother. in case you didn't realise SquirmOfEels I was restating the OP's solution not proposing it as my own.

[JustALittlePeacePlease]

Thank you all for taking the time to post.

In response to some comments, I am certainly not treating it as free childcare, I am a SAHM and my 3 year old finishes pre-school at 2 so he is at home with me at the time of the school clubs. It is actually more helpful for me to have the older one at home as they play together very well. My main point is that he and others in a similar situation are missing out on opportunities purely because of their family circumstances.

It is not just cooking club that is affected, there is also Lego, Eco and Art/Craft. The only club available to all children although spaces will be limited is Gymnastics. There are 2 other clubs run at lunch times which are newspaper and science club, but how many 4 - 7 year olds want to loose they outside playtimes for 5/6 weeks in a row to sit inside writing etc.

I think I may try and speak to someone at the school to see if I can find the real reason for the sudden change of rules but I certainly won't make such a fuss that all the children lose out.