teachers - what is normal sexual behaviour in a child?

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Our school is like every other, mostly lovely staff, mostly lovely families.

There is one child who has significant behavioural needs, my understanding is that he has a statement, but, it's certainly both none of my business, nor relevant what his diagnosis is.

The boy (X) is 9. Last year I had a problem because he was groping my 10 year old's crotch, kissing girls against their will and humping them in queues. The school didn't deal with it particularly well at first - but, they did (after I patiently explained that if they couldn't protect my daughter against sexual assault on their premises that it would become a police matter) sort it out.

X was given more TA time, was only allowed out for supervised playtimes and, that seemed to work - there were fewer aggressive episodes and he's now out playing freely again.

Last month X was making "blow job signs" (you know what I mean, pushing his tongue in and out of his cheek with his hand at his face) at my son, both in class and in the playground. X usually pulls my son's hair and kicks him in lines, but, this is new. To be fair, X consistently lashes out, it's not that my kids are being targeted.

Last week, X pulled down my friend's son's trousers, in the line, in front of everyone, laughed at the boy's willy and touched it, like, he was tickling it. From what my son reported, seemed the purpose was to humiliate the other child.

This wee boy is 9 years old, and, clearly, knows an awful lot more about sex than my 9 year old does.

School are quick to minimise his behaviour, possibly because he has so many behavioural issues (lots of aggression and stealing) and, I expect they are plagued with parents complaining that "he did this, he said that, why aren't you...?"

Would you say these types of sexual behaviour are age appropriate?

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that if there is a child protection issue, that, school will have spotted it long before I thought "oh, now, that's a bit peculiar for a 9 year old".

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

oh I didn't mean you were implying it was normal ASD behaviour, it just sounds a bit to me like ASD is being used as an excuse.

and for the record I think you have sounded extremely NOT judgemental the entire way through this thread, you have tried to see it from the other child's point of view etc. A lot of parents wouldn't.

it is the cycle thing - do the games/videos etc come first and then the aggression or was the aggression there already and then the games reinforce it.

[siiiiiiiiigh]

But, yep, he knows an awful lot more than sits comfortably.

I know he has an x-box, computer and tv in his room, screens are his "thing". I suspect he watches stuff on his own, he certainly plays 18 computer games.

Hope that doesn't sound judgey. Though, I'm not sure that playing a game stuffing dead hookers into car boots is helpful for kids with aggression... hoik

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Oh, crikey, no! I don't want to be giving the impression that this behaviour is typical of autism!

I don't know nearly enough about the spectrum to explain autism, but, all I can say is that this particular boy has marked difficulties in understanding how other people feel - so, lots of aggression and shouting and stealing. So, I can see that he'd be disinhibited because he's got little concept about personal space and boundaries.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

I agree with knittedjimmychoos. I mean yes some autistic children have no inhibitions but I honestly can't believe it can be seen as 'normal autistic behaviour' to touch people inappropriately. I think that is very worrying in itself and would personally feel that his autism is being used by family or whoever to cover up other stuff going on. In fact the child might quite feasibly not be in the slightest bit autistic but could be dealing with something so awful that his behaviour in how he is trying to cope with it and make sense of it is making him appear autistic.

an no your child should not, under any circumstances, have to learn to deal with it or anything else. you are quite right.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

Isnt the sexual stuff still shocking though? its not sympatamitc of chidren with autstim to behave in a sexual in appropriate way ? where has he got it from?

[Vvvoom]

Yes, have a zero tolerance threshold. My dd has been consistently hurt by a child in her class - nothing like what you describe, but so frequent that it has become a real issue, and other children are similarly being hurt.

I have met with head twice, asked for my concerns to be recorded, and am now monitoring the situation closely. Other parents are also going in. More TA support has been put into the class, and the boy is getting a lot more one-on-one. The head and I have frequent chats about it, and he has asked me to let him know of any further incidents (which I am doing). I feel really happy that my concerns are being properly dealt with. Like you, I am pro-inclusion but not if the safety of other children is being compromised. It's basically your job as a parent to protect your dd.

[siiiiiiiiigh]

It was reported, Flogging.

Reassuringly, the case was already known to SS. Presumably they will follow up with the HT.

Either way, guess my role is now to ask what's going on from my kids and have a zero tolerance threshold.

[Floggingmolly]

If the parent's of his "victims" are being fobbed off with this is just boys being boys, I would approach SS myself.
Whatever they may be doing behind the scenes to help X; they are failing in their duty to protect the other kids his behaviour is affecting.

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Erm, that seems to be a bit unclear, clam.

"Things are in place" - so, increased supervision and support for him

I have every sympathy for the boy and his family. It must be exhausting and exasperating trying to teach him social norms and what is acceptable behaviour. But, frankly, my concern is my child, my responsibililty is to my child - and, she's not being conditioned into thinking that it's ok to be touched like that because the HT is determined not to exclude the boy.

Frankly, the HT has a duty to keep my daughter, and the other kids, safe. So, if she is unable to do that then this will become a police matter.

I'm relieved, actually. At least there's nothing sinister causing his behaviour. Poor kid, life's dealt him a rough hand.

[clam]

Wow. Difficult all round.

So what is the school doing now to protect your daughter - and others?

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Update:

"stuff" was in place. Wee boy has autism with issues understanding social boundaries and has some disinhibited behaviour.

Which is all very difficult for him, his family and those who love and care for him.

Am still a bit unclear about how the mundane ordinary of the majority can accommodate the distinct needs, troubles and issues that this one kid has. Specifically, my daughter's need to have her body respected is not trumped by the difficulties his condition brings. He's not going to be allowed to figure out social norms by experimenting on my daughter. I appreciate that it's very difficult to get balance - and a difficulty that is ticking along in every school in every town. Mundane.

Which is not to criticise inclusion, which, I fervently believe in. As long as there's the support funded to allow kids like this wee boy to manage. Without that then he's a bit vulnerable within the system that says it'll support him.

Actually, I don't see that he's being very well supported. I see that he is being "included" on paper - when, actually, he doesn't participate in playtime, breaks, parties or unsupervised play. He's included - but, is excluded. Rough.

Am watching. Poor kid. Poor school. Poor everything.

Thanks for the suggestions and help. Much appreciated.

[HerrenaHarridan]

Agree that it may already be being investigated and if so another concern in the pile will make sure ss pay close attention. The op and other parents will be told nothing of any of this.


If ss we're not aware thank fuck they now are.

The fact that the head is so completely unbothered by sexual assaults in his school cannot be ignored.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

I am sorry but IF it is already being dealt with then no the school don't have to tell the other parents but they HAVE to put the safety of the other pupils first regardless. Parents have every reason to be alarmed under the circumstances from what the OP has said.

[LatteLady]

Can I just say it may already be being dealt with. You and other parents would not know what actions have been taken, nor should you.

They will be down playing it so as not to alarm parents whilst it is being investigated.

[HerrenaHarridan]

I'm relieved, hopefully someone intervenes in whatever is going in in that poor kids life.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

good it has been reported.

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Friend in paeds MH reported it to social services. Am relieved, at least she knows what the system is.

Thakns for the support.
x

[Bitlost]

The school is failing in its duty to protect the children under its care. I would report the the assaults your daughter has been a victim of and anything else you have witnessed to the police and encourage other parents to do the same.

[yummypickledeggs]

When you write to the HT you should also copy it to the Chairman of Governors. If you can, you should make a note of dates and actions that your child has observed- you can't press ahead with this on 'rumour' but need real evidence, including that of other parents.

[fairgame]

If you don't think the HT is taking this seriously then you could ring social services yourself. That behaviour is completely inappropriate for a 9 year old and quite disturbing.
FWIW my son's old HT referred us to social services last year because he kept touching his LSA's breast. He was 8 at the time and he has ASD and had a full time 1:1 statement. We had a meeting with everyone who was involved in his care and it was felt that the touching was nothing more than curiosity and lack of awareness on his part so nothing came of it. Me and the SENCO worked together to make DS aware of where he could and couldn't touch people and equally where they could and couldn't touch him.
If there is nothing in it then there is no harm done by speaking to social services. Even if the boy is behaving like this through lack of awareness then it still needs addressing because it's putting him and the other kids at risk of harm. They need to work with the child so he is aware of what is appropriate.

[HerrenaHarridan]

Personally i would escalate this. School is not outside the law, primary age children are being sexually assaulted and the victim blamed and minimised.

Do not allow this to be swept under the rug.

Involve the police, this boys family will be investigated, he will be given professional support to not grow up into an abuser and the cycle if a use he is perpetuating into other children will be broken.

As a victim of child sexual abuse who has absorbed countless peoples personal experiences I beg you do not let this drop!

[Legionofboom]

I'll ask for a meeting with the HT and speak frankly about my worries and ask her what she's done/is doing

I would suggest that after the meeting you send a letter or email confirming what you discussed in the meeting and any actions that you both agreed would be taken, then ask the HT to let you know if they disagree with anything. Always better to have things like this in writing I think.

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Thanks, troops.

I spoke to someone I know who works in the paeds mental health team. She's pretty shocked too.

So, I'll ask for a meeting with the HT and speak frankly about my worries and ask her what she's done/is doing.

I'm hopeful that there are things going on that I am unaware of. And, I agree, this wee boy is the one who is vulnerable - apart from anything else everyone assumes that he's at the root of whatever trouble's going on in the school.

Deep breath.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

no it isn't normal.

2 things the school SHOULD be doing and appear to be failing on.

first (IMO it is first anyway) is protecting the other children from the behaviour, whatever the reason, whether it is a response to abuse/seeing things he shouldn't or whatever HE is the one currently behaving inappropriately and the other children MUST be protected from this in whatever way is necessary.

second they need to flag up with social services/child protection/whoever what the situation is with this child.

Obviously he is too young to in many ways be held responsible for all his behaviour in that it must be a reaction to something as children aren't born with these thoughts BUT having said that it is not fair to expect other children to suffer because he has been exposed to something inappropriate and it is very important his behaviour is dealt with straight away.

[kla73]

This sexual behaviours traffic light tool from Brook is useful www.brook.org.uk/old/index.php/traffic-lights