School waiting lists - unfair

[JimmyCorkhill]

Hope this is the right place to post.

DD1 is due to start school this September. Despite living extremely close to 4 primary schools we didn't get a place as they are all oversubscribed (plus one is Catholic which we aren't). Obviously we put her name on all the waiting lists. The furthest distances for 1st round offers were all less than a few hundred metres.

There is a brand new academy opening near us which we also applied to and got a place (you could apply as an extra choice). Unfortunately, as we learn more about this school we are disliking it more and more. We are really hoping that a place opens up for us at one of our original choices.

I have rung to check DD1's position on the waiting lists and decided to do an update ring today only to discover that she has gone backwards on the list! Apparently late applications have pushed her back.

Will this be due to LAC/SEN? Or will someone really be prioritised over DD1 because of distance? IF so, that's incredibly unfair as we followed all the rules and time scales. There's no point applying till you feel like it then is there?

I am fighting back tears here. I really feel let down by our council. Can someone explain it to me please?

Oh I know that B&D, the point it is presented as parental "choice".
When it is nothing of the kind.

And what is ridiculous is the inequalities in terms of the quality of educational provision, esp wrt SEN.

I'm not sure that it is presented as that, although when the birth rate was lower, I think more people got their preference so it felt like "choice".

Good luck op and anyone else playing waiting game

we dident get any of our 3choices and got allocated a school further away which we turned down so accept that the la have fullfilled their legal obligations and have been very unhelpful.

we dident get school 1 where older sister is in year 4 due to being out of tiny catchemnt sibling link only applies local siblings we 1.162 miles away and dd2 only sibling who now has no place.We were no 6 we moved upto number 2 out of 20intake 2dropped out some people left waitlist which meant another out catchment sibling who was no 10 in april got offered a place last week hes slightly closer than us, All this tells me is their are no people within catchment on waitlist currently and no 1 is also out catchment but dont know who they are or where they live and if family moves in close to school we slide back down.

choice 2.was longshot academy random allocation we were no 105 out the hat 1st round for 30places 201 applications
if one of those 30 decline or dont turn up then 70 who dident get place et put back into hat if the chose stay on waitlists and everyone has equal chance as doesnt work on distance hence why im reluctant to take it off my wait list.

choice 3 nearest infant school 509 metres away 75 intake no place there either. we were no 7 we moved up to no 3

we added a 4th free school still unsure about opens in sept we no 19 which told is good and less than mile but 25intake.

we can only bank 3school places at nce so if accepted allocated school we would have had drop 1 waitlist. wish we could waitlist 6 seems much fairer if you have no place.

im being stubborn as told sept is when movement happens

its not until child physically does not turn up that they can offer place then it can take weeks

most schools only do part time hardly any hours until october half term

Longer time more reluctant people are to move.

waiting list held until xmas here then unsure what happens think just pester school and do mid year admission.

my top tips are

yes on the whole in oversubscribed areas the under subscribed ones may not be the best.

if you close county borders ring other council as found few good schools have vacancies either they hidden or other areas of city not as bad as ours but would mean travelling a distance.

ring you la and ask which schools have vacancies possible find one better than allocated one.

new schools/academies are tricky as no ofsted and sats just have go gut feel. many of them seem contraversial and seem to get obejections when they 1st open.we put 2 down one is run by very highly regarded senir school so seemed a safe bet but new school can also be exiting ne near me has chickens and a dog was under last year but oversubscribed this year and anticipate it doing well.

wait sept and see.

we defered until jan homeschooling until then and hoping something we like comes up then will reveiw it in jan.

so many rush into it n april and accept a school sometimes being brave and holding nerve until sept can be hard but eventually reap rewards seens so many success stories on here gives me hope.

I also think seems so unfair. my la sibling policy is very unfair.

in some areas choice is falacy we have 3choices here and mstly realistically have choice of 2 nearby schools hence why we moved house give us greater choice.

if you large town or city often lots movement and people who go private may hold onto their state place again unfair.

try have nice summer and stay positive.

3asAbird good luck and thank you.

most schools only do part time hardly any hours until october half term
Really? Round here most school have everyone in full time unless agreed part time by mid September.

the majority here are staggered starts in name order so morning afternoon as dd2s freinds are part time least for sept think she said 6 weeks.

I read here hamstead do part time until xmas

only 1 local school went staright into full time here last year

of course every areas different and eldest did staggered starts

I think even within an area, individual schools differ. I believe you can insist on full time from day 1.

I agree with you that it is unfair. We were 5th on waiting list on offer day. We have gone up and down the list and still haven't got a place. 10 places have been given out since offer day. I have lived here 16 years and don't see why someone moving in a month before they are due to start is more entitled to a place than us. I know how it all works it is all I have thought about since March - for secondary place. There needs to be a fairer system. The last 5 years my Dd would have got a place.

Someone moving into an area will initially be offered a place at the unpopular school nobody wants. You are proposing penalising them again by putting them at the back of the waiting list for their preferred schools.

I can understand your views given your circumstances. If you were the one moving into an area I suspect you would take a different view.

If I was in that situation I would expect to get whatever school place was left not one at the best school in the city. Obviously people move for all sorts of reasons but I cannot understand why someone would choose to move when their child is starting primary or secondary school. Excluding people who are evicted or move with the army etc or have no other choice.

Anyone moving closer to the school than us automatically gets any places that come up.

My life seems to have been on hold since March. We are now 1st on the list and may get a place. I have bought uniform for our allocated school but it is a different colour for the school we want so it might have to go back.

The school we want have told us they regularly get people not turning up on the first day who have gone private. So my Dd may have to start at a school we don't want for a week.

It has marred my Dd's last few months in Y6.

"Excluding people who are evicted or move with the army etc or have no other choice. "

Well, if you exclude those people, you suddenly have to do an awful lot of tests on movers.

What about people who intended to move earlier but their chain fell through? What about people who got moved to a different office for their company? What about people who moved to be nearer to a suddenly frail relative? Do they pass or fail your "no other choice" test?

Anyone moving in those key years will know that they will miss out on the main admissions round and be far less likely to get their preferred school than if they moved a year sooner. They are already "penalised" by that and I think most people don't move on a whim in those years for that reason.

So what do you suggest house? People have to justify their reasons for moving to the school/LEA? Prove their husband beat them up? Ask the landlord to write and confirm he's evicting them illegally? People as rule don't choose to move after the admissions deadline, mostly it's unavoidable.

From speaking to admissions they have said the majority of the 10 places given have gone to people moving since 1st March. In most cases they have moved within our city nearer to the school since they found out their allocated school. It seems if you have money you can buy your way in.

Some or all of those moves may well have been underway before 1 march and waiting for chains to conclude before they happened.

I am really surprised you were told that, though.

People who apply by the application date have priority (within the admissions criteria) for more than 6 months. They have priority in the first round of allocations, and also as soon as the first round of waiting list places come up.

But at some point the waiting lists have to open to all applicants - people who have moved house in the preceding 6 or more months etc.

This opening up also allows you to go on waiting lists for other schools, maybe ones that you didn't apply to in the first place. And you will be given the same status; a place on the waiting list according to the admissions criteria.

I do sympathise OP, it sounds a if you are within one of the notorious 'black hole' areas, and that is the problem - the geographical under-provision of schools in your area, not the admissions laws.

Did you apply to your closest schools?

Anyway, things to remember: all the waiting lists of the shools close to you are likely to be made up of the same people - each person will be on lots of waiting lists. So as soon as someone gets a place in one of the schools near you, it is likely to make all the others shorten the list by one place.

People move house in the summer - out of your area as well as in. Some swan merrily off without remembering to decline the school place until after the first day of term. This is why places often become available in the first half of the first term.

I hope you will get a place you are happier with.

If I was in that situation I would expect to get whatever school place was left

Initially that is indeed what you would get. That is the penalty for being a late applicant. If you are lucky you may get a place through the waiting list but there is no guarantee.

Blu yes I did apply to our closest schools. And our area is known as a 'black hole' which unfortunately we didn't know when we moved here (when DD was a baby). We just noticed the many primary schools close by

I can accept that we didn't get a place and that other children had priority. I can accept that we might not get a place even though we're on the waiting lists. I can accept that other children may leapfrog my DD on the waiting list due to SEN/LAC/unavoidable moves. I was just cross that someone might get a place because they hadn't filled their form in on time.

someone might get a place because they hadn't filled their form in on time

No-one will get a place because they hadn't filled in their form on time. Late applicants are not going ahead of you because they are late. All that is happening is that they are not being placed behind you just because they are late. If they are late, in the same admissions category as you and live further from the school they will be behind you in the waiting list (assuming this school has fairly standard admission criteria).

There are, of course, all kinds of reasons why people apply late. In a few cases it is because they missed the deadline for applications through not being aware of the need to apply or simply not being sufficiently organised to apply. In most cases there are other reasons:

• they have moved into the area but were unable to organise the move to get in before the application deadline

• they really don't like the allocated school and are getting on the waiting lists of schools that weren't amongst their original preferences

Those are two possible reasons off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

Any late applicant is penalised in that they will miss out on the main allocations round, so they will be offered a place at an unpopular school that may be miles from home. If we penalise them again by putting them at the back of the waiting list they will have no chance of ever getting into a popular school nearer home. We don't award them for being late by putting them at the head of the waiting list either. We simply put them in the correct position according to the admission criteria.

Does the continuing interest list have a nationwide cut off date? Or is it just some arbitrary date set by LAs? I'm wondering why it just doesn't have a cut off of, say, the 2nd day of the start of the new school year to allow the people at the top of the list to grab the places of the no-shows before opening it up to everyone.

The lists are permanently open; the person who is at the top at the moment the space becomes available should get it, whether they've been on the list 5 days or 5 months.

Technically, as LAC and formerly LAC are classified as 'excepted children', they do not count towards the Infant Class Size Regulations and should be admitted even if the class is full. LAC and formerly LAC should only be on a waiting list in very exceptional circumstances.

The underlying reason why you get people moving around and applying late is that the gap between the closing date for applying (mid january) and starting in September, eight and a half months, is long enough for peoples circumstances to change in lots of ways.

Unless the admissions system was radically changed, and for example used email only for offers and had really short deadlines for acceptance or rejection in each round of offers, so the deadline for application could be much closer to the autumn start, its difficult to see things getting better. And a purely electronic admissions system is certainly a number of years away!

My dcs are already at school but we are moving very soon. The reason is that my dh was made redundant some time ago and has been unable to get another one where we live now, so we are having to uproot the whole family in order to keep a roof over our heads (my work is portable thankfully, I can do it anywhere)

Some of the attitudes on this thread are quite shocking. Do my children not deserve a school place? After all it's not their fault the whole country has been in recession and their dad's company nearly went under as a result. And we'd all rather stay put where they've lived their whole lives.

I agree that the system stinks btw. We have none of this where we live now. There are plenty of places and all the local schools are lovely.

Relocator I started this thread because I didn't understand the system. And I wanted it explained to me which everyone has done.

I'm sorry that you have to move and I'm glad you have school places sorted. Of course your children deserve a place.

We got a waiting-list place for our 1st choice 3 weeks into the Autumn term from position 42.

Fortunate that the school was in an area where all the schools are outstanding, very high mobility and a lot of families from overseas.

2 children didn't turn up as they'd returned to their own countries, and 2 others left, so 4 places came up at once. Most parents on the waiting-list decided not to take the place as quite happy with the school they had (and not long enough into the school year to find reasons not to like it!), had bought the uniform and child had just settled.

I was told on the Thursday morning and she needed to start the following Monday, so mad dash to do all the forms and buy new uniform - which was a complete bugger as had bought for the school she was originally allocated (donated it anonymously to a family with serious financial issues so at least it went to a good home) and new one is completely different colours.

So, don't lose heart, places do come up.