State primary + working parents - can it work?

[MillionPramMiles]

If you both work full time so can't do pick ups/drop offs, do you feel your child has lost out? Are they supported with homework, do they still have playdates? How did you find good wrap around care?

I'm favouring private schools not because I think state schools offer poor education but because I can't get my head around how it can possibly work otherwise. It doesn't help that the state schools near us (or schools we could reasonably move near) offer very limited or no after school care.

One headmistress of a local (well regarded) school said they offered no after school clubs as they thought parents should look after their children at the end of the school day. Most working mothers I know are planning to work part time or not at all once their kids are at school. Is that the only solution? (Neither is financially or practically possible for us without one of us commuting 3-4 hours a day).

[BucksKid]

I was able to hire a part time nanny who just did after school. She had her own baby and was very happy with the short hours because she could bring her baby. I Just put an add in the newsagents to find her.

[Laundryangel]

We ended up looking at private schools for this exact reason. We are lucky in that our DD has been offered a place at an outstanding primary. But it offers no wraparound care or holiday club & there is only one cm who does drop off & pick up and, unsurprisingly given it is a 2 form entry school, she has no spaces. When I asked the head what most families did, she told me most mums gave up work by the end of the first term!
Private school hadn't really been on our radar until we started looking at the logistics. Yes, you have to pay but that standard day is from 8.30 - 4.30 and, for KS1, you pay a small amount extra if you want drop off from 7.30 or pick up until 6pm. Ballet, swimming, gymnastics & team sports are done weekly, on site & included in the fees so you don't have to race around on a Saturday morning doing any of those.
Unfortunately, it is all girls & DC2 is a boy and none of the local boys' schools offer similar hours or, if they do, are in completely the wrong direction so, whilst it would solve the problem for the next couple of years, we would then be back in the same position.

[BucksKid]

It's really not that hard to find childcare.

You're going to need loads of childcare even if you go private. I really don't see how that solves your problem.

[hobblebobble]

There are millions of working parents who are faced with arranging childcare round schools. The vast vast majority can not pay to go private and certainly not for two. 75% at least of my DDs parent peer group (90 intake school) work at some point in the week, if not full time. All my female colleagues do of course - big employer of professional women.We are blessed to be in an area where all the schools have wrap round and there are lots of CM but I am shocked by the notion that to work FT you have to go private or give up work

[MaryWestmacott]

BucksKid - why would she need childcare if she picks the right private school? Really, if they have longer school days that fit with her working hours and holiday clubs on site, then she might not need any additional care beyond what can be juggled with holiday allowances between her and her DP.

Sadly, in many parts of the country, it is that hard to find childcare. I certainly couldn't find childcare for the state school that DC1 has been allocated for September, as it is, we've taken the decision for me to be a SAHM. If you have a spare bedroom and are comfortable with sharing your home with someone else, then an au pair might be a good solution to a school with no before and after school care (or only before and after school care that doesn't fit with the times you need), and no childminders doing the school run available.

A full time live out nanny would cost in the region of £30k a year once you've taken into consideration paying NI and insurance, a private school round here with longer school hours paid for is around £12k a year. It's a practial and cheaper option for a lot of families with only 1 or 2 DCs.

[BucksKid]

But you don't need a full time nanny. You need a part time one.

I didn't realise that some private schools offered care virtually 52 weeks of the year. My bad.

I find it very hard to believe a private school is cheaper than a part time nanny though.

[hobblebobble]

Add in private secondary when state school kids walk themselves etc

[MaryWestmacott]

BucksKid - possibly, although it's very hard to find a nanny who wants to work from 7:30am - 9am then 3pm - 7pm. If you need both ends of the day, it's hard to find someone who'll do that part time. If you just needed one end, then a part time nanny might work, but who'd take doing the wrap around hours contract? Childminders with DCs in the same school do those times, but if the OP says there's none doing the school run to the state school she's likely to get a place at, then that doesn't really help that there's affordable CMs in her town doing other school runs.

my DN is at a prep school, they have holiday clubs covering most holidays, if BIL and SIL wanted it, they could have DN covered for 46 weeks a year, only needing to cover 4 weeks themselves, as it is, they can cover 8 weeks between them on holiday allowances. It's a lot eastier than trying to find external cover for 14 weeks of state holidays.

Not for everyone, and if you can't afford it, then it's not an option, but at approx £10-12k a year, that's a similar price to a full time nursery place in our town, offering similar hours, for families used to paying out that sort of sums monthly anyway, it becomes an 'easy' option.

Sadly, there's really not enough good childcare provision in many areas. Too few before and after school clubs allow for commuting times (5:15pm finish to after school clubs near us, wonderfully useless for anyone working normal FT office hours).

[Jinsei]

It' really depends on your situation. I work FT and don't feel that dd has been disadvantaged at all. However, both DH and I have very flexible hours and virtually no commute, so we can manage nearly all pick-ups and drop-offs between us, and my mum can fill in the gaps.

I know others who use after school childcare. Their kids all seem to be absolutely fine and doing well.

[BucksKid]

You can find part time nanny who want those hours.

You'll never know unless you look.

I had loads of people answering an add for exactly that.

I guess it depends where you live. In a big city you will have no problem

But 12k a year for 7 years (at least) does not sound like the optimum solution to me. Unless you actually prefer private school to state school. And you happen to live near a 12k private school that will take your child.

[apermanentheadache]

If you both work full-time I think it is difficult to support homework and arrange playdates full stop. I don't think state vs indy has much bearing. Indies charge for after- and before-school care so surely it's no different to paying a childminder.

If there is no after-school provision in a particular area, then there's an opportunity if I ever saw one.

I would never send my kids to school at a place that thought mums should stay home. What are they going to be teaching them about gender stereotypes and equality of opportunity?! and what world do they live in?

[pointythings]

We used a place that provided before- and after school care. It was outstandingly excellent, and allowed us to pay by the minute, only for time used. Transport was the only thing you paid for if the DC did not attend, otherwise if they were sick that day = no charge for care. They were brilliant.

And compared to full time nursery fees, it was a major financial improvement...

[dixiechick1975]

Advantages for me to private are longer school day - 8.30 to 4.15 for no extra cost.

Morning and afternoon childcare onsite that can be used without notice. This is a big plus for me if I need to get something sorted at work - takes pressure off me.

Homework supervised in after school club eg younger ones are listened to as they read 1 to 1

Clubs offered at school at no extra cost so no need to ferry them to clubs.

Tutoring for 11+ /selective exams at school.

99% of mums at school work and school well aware that parents work. Plenty of notice of events, all meetings in evening, no requests for costumes at short notice or early finishes at end of terms etc.

No strikes and has been the only school open in town in snow days.

Only 2 extra weeks hols - chance to go away when cheaper. No fines for taking out of school - sensible requests authorised.

Runs onsite holiday childcare in summer.

Fees are under £6000 a year.

I work PT in a professional job but it has worked well for us so far.

[JewelFairies]

You can find part time nanny who want those hours [sic] Really BucksKids? So what you are saying is that I am lying when I said we had no choice but to go private for a few years because there was NO CHILDCARE in our area? Please do not express your own experience as fact, I find it insulting.

[JewelFairies]

And everything dixiechick said (cross post)

[BackforGood]

Of course they don't miss out. You find good care by talking to a lot of people.
Surely though, if you can afford Private, then, if you weren't paying private school fees you could afford for either one or both of you to go PT, or at least take a job that doesn't have such a long commute.
Thousands and thousands of parent up and down the Country do it. Yes, it can be stressful, but then I think that is part and parcel of having kids.

[BucksKid]

I wasn't insulting you. I said it must depend where you live because it certainly is possible round here.

Threads like this just show how different everyone's experiences are.

I'm gobsmacked by the PP who gets such an amazing school for 6K. Genuinely gobsmacked. I had no idea.

But again it depends where you live. Because you certainly can't get a private education for 6K a year here.

[apermanentheadache]

dixiechick most of the things you list (save for tutoring for 11+ and supervised homework) are things we have at our state school. I do appreciate that it's not the same for everyone though - it depends very much on where you live and on population density.

[apermanentheadache]

6k wouldn't get you much here either... well, it would get you half a year

I think one obvious thing to do if there is no after-school provision for your school is to challenge this. It's really not acceptable to say that parents should be at home! I don't necessarily mean that the school should provide the club. They could bring in an outside operator to operate at full cost - or at least investigate whether this would be feasible. Private day nurseries will sometimes offer wrap-around care too.

Local Authorities are under a duty to secure sufficient childcare so you can ask them what they plan to do as well.

[JewelFairies]

Apermanentheadache Please tell me where you live so I can move. Children weren't really on the horizon when we bought our current house, so finding we were in a rubbish area for state schools and childcare came as a shock...

[apermanentheadache]

We live in east surrey/ greater London borders - very high population density, so that probably makes a difference. House prices/ rents are so high here that it is unusual to have a parent who doesn't work at all. In fact I don't know that many in this situation, maybe one or two families.

Our school usually stays open through strikes, there are clubs before and after school that can be used on an ad-hoc basis, after-school (hobby) clubs for year 1 and 2s, always open on snow days, rarely closed for strikes, always loads of notice for meetings, events, etc. Admittedly we can't go on holiday when we please but that isn't down to the school - it's national legislation. And I am unconcerned about them not tutoring for the 11+ because the grammars around here generally require huuuuge amounts of natural ability or years of drilling, owing to the massive demand for places.

[apermanentheadache]

Dixiechick where the dickens do you live? £6,000 for a school is extremely low. Is it a religious school or one with a particular philosophy (e.g., with some charitable foundation behind it?)

[dixiechick1975]

Appreciate fees are higher down south!

A full time nursery place at dd's old nursery would cost more than school fees.

We didn't plan on private. School DD was allocated had no childcare provision and wasn't acceptable for many reasons.

Don't usually get involved in state v private debates on here but it has worked well for our family circumstances.

[phlebasconsidered]

All primaries I have worked in have offered 7.30 (7.45 at the latest) till 6.00pm wraparound care, and I have worked both in London and very rurally. I think it does depend largely on your intake. In East London it was a foregone conclusion, where I am now , with so many parents shiftworking and fieldworking seasonally, wraparound care is needed more, not less. If you live in a nice suburb or posh village which is commutable and only one-form entry, less likely you'll find the care, in which case, childminders are the way to go. A primary needs at least 2 form entry to make clubs viable.

For me, as a teacher, my two are in breakfast club from 7.30 and after school club till 4.30, 6.00 on Wednesdays (INSET). One of the reasons i'm going part-time again. I feel at their age, (R and Yr 1) it's just too bloody much, for all of us. I have tons of marking to do and i'm still up and I'll just get a glimpse of them in the morning. And won't see them tommorrow, unless you count the whining / shouting hour I'll get at the end of the day when they're knackered.

Anyway, find what makes your kid happy. For me, it's stopping full time teaching!

[dixiechick1975]

Lancashire and yes charitable/religious. But other localish schools similar fees.