State primary + working parents - can it work?

[MillionPramMiles]

If you both work full time so can't do pick ups/drop offs, do you feel your child has lost out? Are they supported with homework, do they still have playdates? How did you find good wrap around care?

I'm favouring private schools not because I think state schools offer poor education but because I can't get my head around how it can possibly work otherwise. It doesn't help that the state schools near us (or schools we could reasonably move near) offer very limited or no after school care.

One headmistress of a local (well regarded) school said they offered no after school clubs as they thought parents should look after their children at the end of the school day. Most working mothers I know are planning to work part time or not at all once their kids are at school. Is that the only solution? (Neither is financially or practically possible for us without one of us commuting 3-4 hours a day).

[CMOTDibbler]

Ds is at private for this reason - wrap around care from 8-6 is included in the fees (7.45 start from September), and theres a choice of 2 or more clubs every night from 4-5. So he gets sport/music/languages/dance/craft etc without having to juggle that as well.

Our holidays are a bit longer than local state (not 18 weeks), but school run holiday clubs 8-6 at half term/easter/christmas/summer with use of all the facilities and day trips. Theres about 4 weeks a year that aren't covered.

Works for us (apart from the money), and we are very, very happy with the standard of care provided.

[chickensandbees]

At my school, a small village school with 90 children there is no before or after school care and most people juggle it between themselves and grandparents. No local childminders, I often think if a parent started an afterschool club they could make a fortune.

I work full time but work from home 2 days a week and me and DH and GPs manage the rest between us. Homework is done when we get home so usually after 6pm.

We are lucky we have fairly flexible jobs otherwise we couldn't manage and would have to go part time or move to a schoolwith before and afterschool clubs which are available but not in our village so the GCs would have to go to the nearest town instead.

I am lucky that we have managed to pick them up every day though.

[ladybirdandsnails]

We are blessed with full wrap round (8-6) and a high uptake from nursery children upwards... especially of those in FT nursery previously or doing long private nursery days previously. It is just like one huge after school play date and as its at the school, they also collect from any after school activities e.g. choir, netball etc at 5pm.
I know of people who have worked with their schools to get a provider to offer wrap round e.g. a local nursery where it did not exist before.
For those schools that are academies it is also worth doing as an extra income stream.
It is a postcode lottery and where intake is defined by distances it a huge gamble - in our area they go up and down each year. Many are less than 0.4 miles, some as low as 0.2

[manyhatson]

to be clear 'afterschool clubs' = football, french club, music, dance etc
'Afterschool Club' = paid childcare 'club' like Koosa.

[manyhatson]

We have a great selection of afterschool clubs at our school but that's only until 4.30pm. There is also an afterschool club run by the school (paid) which is mostly full, particularly early in the week and it's too much I think to expect our reception age child to do that every day - and our Y3 child has homework and music practice and that is not facilitated by the ASC.

I've found it practically impossible managing without childcare back up, even working very flexible part time (soon to be full time no doubt) and from August we have an au pair. Fingers crossed that that will give us the support and flexibility we're looking for without resorting to the CM option that we had in the past (which I hated).

[MaryWestmacott]

What are the state secondary schools like? if you would have to move out anyway at secondary (and private secondary is a bit jump up in price), then i might be worth doing the move sooner.

If the state secondaries are good and you like the area, then you need to move fast for private, most will want you to use their pre-school, and for places will prioritise children already in the preschool over those coming in at 4.

If you move for the school, do your research and be as close as possible! I know a woman who this year rented out her home and rented a house close to the school she wanted, she was 0.47miles from the school but didn't get a place. (I have limited sympathy as she never intended to stay in the rental, planning to go back to the family home once the tenancy was up). The year before, the catchment was out to 0.9miles, but it was a high sibling year for that school.

[MillionPramMiles]

Fin: of the three nearest non faith schools (excluding the poorly performing one I mentioned) only one offers after school care after 4pm (and we are outside the tiny catchment).

There are lots of good non faith state schools that offer after school care in London (it's good to hear some of the posters praising their schools wrap around care). We will have to move to be near any of them and will take a gamble on:
the catchment of the school not changing after we move
the school still being good when dd attends
the after school arrangements having sufficient places and still being available.
The first two would always be a concern but adding in a third makes me wonder if there are just too many unknowns for it to work out.

Mary: If we move, we won't be able to afford school fees. If we stay, we are very likely to only be awarded a place at a low performing school. No way to hedge our bets there.

It does feel like a postcode lottery, it would be far easier if all state schools offered the same wrap around care. But I can see they're not there to support working parents, that's understandable but frustrating.

[Johnogroats]

We are in London and the boys state school does offer pre and post school care. We don't use it as we have an AP who takes them to various activities. Both work ft with frequent travel. Things do change quickly in London, so don't be surprised if more care is offered In 3 years time.

[OatcakeCravings]

Play dates aren't an issue, my DS has gone home with his friends and had tea there and I pick him up. I reciprocate the play date at the weekend - you'll be amazed at how many of his friend's parents love this arrangement! I don't feel he misses out at all. My DS also does one afterschool activity which is on twice a week, both times it starts at 6pm and is local to me so isn't a problem to get to.

[MaryWestmacott]

Well, if your DD is 2 nd you are thinking of private, then you aren't too early to be putting her name down on lists for private. You can make the decision closer to the time, and most won't ask you for any money until around the Easter before she's due to start, which would also be around when you'd find out which state school you'd got if you apply for state place. If you can afford it, I'd hedge my bets and put her name down for private while also applying for state.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

I'm in a London commuter town and my DCs are at an excellent state school. The on site breakfast club is 7.50am drop off and provides a healthy breakfast. The after school club is run by a local nursery at the nearby church hall. They have a sliding scale of fees depending on pick up time. This can be 5.30, 6 or 6.30pm. I'm not saying it's a bed of roses but it's certainly feasible in some areas. The ASC will also collect from after school activities which take place on the school site so DCs can do sport, languages or other clubs.

[pyrrah]

I'm in central London and have been very fortunate with childcare.

DD goes to breakfast club at 8am and then afterschool club from 3.15 to 5.30 (hopefully changing to 6pm).

In the holidays/Inset days/Strike days etc the nursery she attended before going to school offers 8-6 care until children turn 11. They also do a breakfast club/afterschool club with drop off and pick up to 5 local primaries.

To be honest, DD loves it. The afterschool club has different activities every day - so far this week they've done gardening, hama beads, making elastic bracelets and fabric hair scrunchies, sports races, trips to the park and general playing around outside. It's like a playdate every afternoon and she also knows children in other classes (she's in YR) and the older ones spoil her rotten. A local restaurant has even offered to have them all for a free pizza and ice-cream at the end of term!

It would be far more boring being with mummy all afternoon and playdates in London flats are not exactly ideal.

We have a 20 minute bus ride in the morning and evening and use that to do reading together. Homework is only once a week so we do that either at the weekend or one evening.

I'm possibly fortunate that DD is inexhaustible, bed-time is therefore pretty late and so doing things in the evening isn't a problem. If she was a child who was so tired she was falling asleep on the bus on the way home then it would be trickier.

The first week of Reception I did organise to pick her up at 3.15, but after 2 days she told me that she'd rather go to after-school club with her friends thank you very much!

I do think that the government should legislate so that all schools must provide 8-6 wrap-around care especially since they are so keen for parents to work, rather than it being a bit of a post-code lottery!

[FinDeSemaine]

Whereabouts are you in London? The school I mentioned which offers care from 7.45 until 6 is in outer London. I'd be amazed if there weren't plenty of others and, just looking at a few of the local schools' websites, they all seem to offer at least some provision which would cover the hours you mention. All the schools I mention have been rated good or above by Ofsted and three are not religious (one is C of E but a maximum of 40% of the admissions are faith-based).

[MillionPramMiles]

Thanks everyone for posting, wasn't expecting such a response, its given me lots to think about.

Couple of things I should clarify, my dd's only two so I'm worrying a bit early :)
It was a recent chat with a local mum friend who's child starts school in Sept and who had been around the open days for our local schools that started me thinking. She'd asked about after school care and only one of the schools offered it either at all or past 4pm (luckily the one she was offered a place at - which we are just outside the catchment for).
She had looked at CMs as an alternative (and had only found one with a spare place) but (like me) wanted her dd to be able to do some activities after school (her dd wanted that too). The CM offered care, toys, meal etc but not homework help or sports/music (perfectly reasonable but just not what I'd want for dd 5 days a week). There was no option to do a combination as the CM offered 4-5 days after school only. She'd also thought about after school nannies but struggled to find one and loike me, worried about her child being lonely.

Dp and I already work flexibly in that he is able to drop dd off at 8am and I can pick her up at 5.30pm. In our professions that's as flexible as it gets and we're unfortunately tied to working in London. Oh that I'd known this would be a problem 20 years ago...

The reality is we will be only offered a place at a poorly performing state school as our other nearest schools are faith schools. We have to weigh up the pros/cons of moving + state school + after school care versus staying put + private school. The costs are likely to be around the same so its flexibility, reliability and meeting dd's needs that we're focusing on. Doesn't help that school catchments seem to be a black art of some kind. If we move we won't be able to afford private school later on so we need to be sure it will work out.

Amber - that sounds lovely, wish I could find a school we could afford to move near that offered that, would be ideal. I'd naively assumed it would be easy to find schools offering that.

I'll also look into separate private or local authority after school care, hadn't though of that. None of our local schools mention transport to/from on their websites but might be possible.

[cheminotte]

Ds1's one form entry has before and after school care. It's run by TAs and is supposed to cover costs only.

[hobblebobble]

I would second what Amber says. Two of the one form entry schools near us offer full wrap round care

[AmberTheCat]

A primary needs at least 2 form entry to make clubs viable

Not necessarily true. Our small (150 kids) village primary has an after school club every afternoon til 5.30. They usually only get about 20 kids there, charge £6 per child or £3 for siblings, and employ an external provider to run it. Kids can choose to that evening's structured activity (things like sports, cooking, crafts), or just chill. Children just need to say at registration each morning if they want to attend that evening. It's fantastically flexible, and I know that even on those numbers the school makes a small profit on it.

[hobblebobble]

Aperman I am mirroring you in Manchester. Our state school does full wrap round (cheap), holiday clubs the lot and most people work. I would not entertain a school where the head teacher thinks 'mother should stay home' I nearly posted about that before. Why not just say 'girls, don't worry about a career as your role is to have babies and stay with your children '. I was shocked at the comment.
Private here is £12k a year plus extras for wrap round care on average. Same yes as private nursery , but most people rejoice when they escape extortionate fees.
I agree people should challenge if no wrap around at all is offered e .g. With local provider

[apermanentheadache]

Aha, so you're up north . I sometimes wonder why we're down here when commuting costs us £3000 quid a year and a bog-standard semi with some actual trees and green space around it cannot be had for under half a million quid!

[dixiechick1975]

Lancashire and yes charitable/religious. But other localish schools similar fees.

[phlebasconsidered]

All primaries I have worked in have offered 7.30 (7.45 at the latest) till 6.00pm wraparound care, and I have worked both in London and very rurally. I think it does depend largely on your intake. In East London it was a foregone conclusion, where I am now , with so many parents shiftworking and fieldworking seasonally, wraparound care is needed more, not less. If you live in a nice suburb or posh village which is commutable and only one-form entry, less likely you'll find the care, in which case, childminders are the way to go. A primary needs at least 2 form entry to make clubs viable.

For me, as a teacher, my two are in breakfast club from 7.30 and after school club till 4.30, 6.00 on Wednesdays (INSET). One of the reasons i'm going part-time again. I feel at their age, (R and Yr 1) it's just too bloody much, for all of us. I have tons of marking to do and i'm still up and I'll just get a glimpse of them in the morning. And won't see them tommorrow, unless you count the whining / shouting hour I'll get at the end of the day when they're knackered.

Anyway, find what makes your kid happy. For me, it's stopping full time teaching!

[dixiechick1975]

Appreciate fees are higher down south!

A full time nursery place at dd's old nursery would cost more than school fees.

We didn't plan on private. School DD was allocated had no childcare provision and wasn't acceptable for many reasons.

Don't usually get involved in state v private debates on here but it has worked well for our family circumstances.

[apermanentheadache]

Dixiechick where the dickens do you live? £6,000 for a school is extremely low. Is it a religious school or one with a particular philosophy (e.g., with some charitable foundation behind it?)

[apermanentheadache]

We live in east surrey/ greater London borders - very high population density, so that probably makes a difference. House prices/ rents are so high here that it is unusual to have a parent who doesn't work at all. In fact I don't know that many in this situation, maybe one or two families.

Our school usually stays open through strikes, there are clubs before and after school that can be used on an ad-hoc basis, after-school (hobby) clubs for year 1 and 2s, always open on snow days, rarely closed for strikes, always loads of notice for meetings, events, etc. Admittedly we can't go on holiday when we please but that isn't down to the school - it's national legislation. And I am unconcerned about them not tutoring for the 11+ because the grammars around here generally require huuuuge amounts of natural ability or years of drilling, owing to the massive demand for places.

[JewelFairies]

Apermanentheadache Please tell me where you live so I can move. Children weren't really on the horizon when we bought our current house, so finding we were in a rubbish area for state schools and childcare came as a shock...