Never had a class like it.

[Lizziegeorge]

We're now 6 months in and I still haven't warmed to some of the children in my class. They describe themselves as very clever and like to to talk. Only one of those descriptions is true. They are the rudest and most arrogant group of children I've ever taught and I feel so sorry for the 2/3 who are delightful, engaged etc etc. I also swing between feeling sorry for myself at having such a class and feeling I can't do it anymore. I used to be quite good (got a few outstandings!!) but now feel I'm failing. Their last teacher almost had a breakdown and ended up leaving because of them so I know it's not just me but I feel useless. Management are lovely but not hot on behaviour and school is full of very liberal middle class London parents whose children rule the roost. Be very grateful for some advice.

[QueenofLouisiana]

One Page Profile here. I think it has a lot going for it!

[QueenofLouisiana]

Yr 5 can be a challenging year group- I'm experiencing the joys of my 5th set of Yr 5s this year. I think it is a mixture of suddenly realising they aren't young children but not having much more freedom and a few hormones kicking in!

However, I love my Yr5s and 6s. I love the banter and the fact that you get rapport back, in a way that you don't with younger children. The loyalty of this age group is always a delight- when you get there!

I think you need several things:
Management need to man up and back you, this age group are experts at divide and conquer. They need to see that adults run the place, not them. This needs to be reiterated by the whole staff to parents who phone up to whinge if Tarquin is kept in at playtime for refusing to shut up expressing his opinions.
Try class dojo (I use it, the kids love it) or a similar visible reward system- not matter how cool they think they are, Golden Time is still a precious reward at this age (just pretend not to notice the scrimmage for Play Dough!)
Make yourself a list, mental or written, about each child's positive points. They all have them- really, they do. Focus on developing these. Perhaps you could try producing a One Page Profile with the class (can't link to it, try Googling Helen Anderson 1 page profile for ideas).

If all else fails, you are more than half way through the year...must be better next year? Good luck!

[shebird]

What year group are you teaching OP as I imagine his has a bearing on what approach take? I know DDs class have become quite lively in Y5 and the tactics used successfully throughout the school for behaviour no longer work with this age group. These are not over indulged middle class children but they certainly seem to have become very cocky this year. I agree with rrbrigi on rules and consequences for those who misbehave and the school really need to be on board or it's a losing battle.

[007licencetospill]

I think the management has to step up.

[hiccupgirl]

pastsellbydate has good ideas about getting the parents on side. I had to do similar with a class I had that had some very disruptive children who were very indulged at home and totally ruled the roost there. After discussions about how concerned I was that their dear child wasn't going to reach their potential because they were messing around and they had so much to offer etc, said parents were on board and backed me up. It made a big difference.

But Unfortuantly there are classes that it is harder to gel with just due to the combination of individuals, their previous experiences with teachers and lots of other reasons. But you def need to take back control, make the classroom yours again, call them out on their behaviour etc...it doesn't have to be a big deal, just that have noticed things that are going on. And push for support from senior management.

One of the most useful things I ever learnt on teacher training was that if you as the teacher don't take control, one of the children will and that's not fair or safe for the rest of the class.

[BlackeyedSusan]

for younger children I had get up and move times. or the promise of an extra game at the end if they behaved.

[BlackeyedSusan]

take back the class. walk around it. make it your space not theirs.

praise/reward positive behaviour.

develop a stare that can melt metal (I am sure one boy in dd's class still has scars from his teacher's laser eyes)

sometimes the broken record technique works.

use peer presure. not necessarily with sanctions but with words. you don't name offenders but they know who you are talking about. we don't like this behaviour...

don't put up with low level misbehaviour.

the specifics of what you so will depend on what is going on, who you have and how old they are.

[Bilberry]

Don't give whole class punishments - the few who are trying hard just give up when they are repeatedly caught up with the loss of choosing time/shortened lunch break etc. Also don't keep them late at the end of the day - the real people you are punishing then are the babies, toddlers, pre-schoolers and parents outside in the playground.

[Jollyjennie]

This site has helped me enormously www.smartclassroommanagement.com. It's a little American but has worked so far for me. It has short, specific advice for a variety of behaviour management scenarios with an emphasis on creating a happy, hard-working class that children enjoy being part of. The classroom consequences idea is great, particularly if your school doesn't have a whole school behaviour policy. Children get one warning for contravening class rules, followed by time out if they reoffend (in the class, working but seated alone) and when they feel ready to come back and behave, they put their hand up and ask. Of course at this point the whole class are enjoying a fun activity and they have to wait a little... The best bit is when you model the process by taking on the role of a poorly behaved student - my class loved it and I no longer need to use time out. As always, you must be absolutely fair as well as having high expectations (don't tolerate any low level disruption) and show your class you genuinely like and are interested in them.

[Glasshammer]

Arrange a meeting with the head. You need new tactics.

[Glasshammer]

Management has to step up in this situation. Start involving parents more. I expect they are cocky too or have no control over their kids though.

[rrbrigi]

When I was young in another country if I was bad they kept me in at lunchtime to tidy up the classroom, put the chairs where it should be, watering flowers etc Sometimes he kept the whole class in if there were lots of bad children. We also had a desk called sheep desk and those who behaved very badly were sent to there, everyone knew they sat there because they are naughty, we were not allowed to speak to them until they were sitting next to that table. The teacher also was very strict about his rules, so if we did not follow the main rules (speak nicely, behave, listen, etc) he thought we forgot it and we needed to write down X times the rules to make sure next time we remember. E.g.: we needed to write down a hundred times at lunchtime that when the teachers speak I will listen. There were lot longer sentences if you still did not want to follow the rules. (Imagine our spelling was very good within a year!) We learnt the rules very quickly. There were always a few children who did not behave well, but my teacher always gave them lots of work (not just school work) so they did not have time to be bad.

[frumpity33higswash]

Good luck, it sounds awful But there is good advice here.

[KitKins]

As a parent of a delightful one in a very similar class I would suggest focussing on those.

My daughter is currently losing interest and can't see the point of doing any of her school work, because she doesn't receive any form of recognition as the teachers are constantly trying to discipline the hoards. She also came home in tears the other day because her class were told that they were widely considered to be the worst class in the school. She took that personally.

I am not a teacher, but just maybe a bit of parental psychology could be used here. Shower the delightful ones with praise, raise their self-esteem and the others might see what they miss out on. Last years teacher did just this and my daughter flourished. They also had less problems and need to discipline the others. The best bit; not once did that teacher raise her voice, she had "a look" and took the time to get to know each child and somehow seemed to be able to predict/distract some of the more disruptive ones before their trigger.

Unfortunately for us, new year, new teacher, old habits die hard!

[clam]

You sound a bit intimidated by them. How old are they (not sure it makes any difference but I'm interested to know).

The first thing is to know that you're the boss. You have to exude that from every pore. I'm very nice to my class (year 4), and we have lots of fun, but they know from the first minute in my room that they won't get one over on me. The first arrogant look or remark would be met with a raised eyebrow and "the look." If you're confident within yourself, it shouldn't need much more than that.
It's even more important the older they are - Year 6 are renowned for being a bit big for their boots, although it's creeping in a bit earlier these days.

[tethersend]

I know it does pixie- but I honestly have found the opposite to be true, particularly when working with challenging children.

In fact, I think the 'don't smile until Christmas' thing is one if the worst pieces of advice given to training teachers.

[pixiepotter]

kill them with kindness approach. At least at first, then start to get firmer. IME this obtains much better results than coming in strict and relaxing over time.

really? that goes against all teh conventional 'don't even smile until after xmas' teacher wisdom

[pixiepotter]

Splitbthem up on different tables arranged as much as possible so they can not make eye contact with one another.
Out of interest ,how long have you been teaching

[tethersend]

Circle Time

[tethersend]

I think Circle Time- proper Circle Time could help here.

It's a good way to establish some ground rules which are agreed by mutual consent. Ask them what they think makes a good teacher, and then how they can help you to be that teacher. Ask them what makes a good student, and ask how they will help each other to do that.

It's very hard when presented with a group of seemingly confident, arrogant children- but, for your own sanity, you have to remember that this is just a front. They have no substance to their claims, they are just repeating what adults around them say. Write some things to remind you of this inside cupboard doors and go and read them/seethe when they've said something really eye-watering and you're 'getting the scissors'

If there are lots of large personalities vying for attention, make up jobs/roles in the classroom which carry prestige, and divvy them up.

If they are REALLY getting to you, send one of them off to next door's teacher with a coded note which basically means 'I need a break from this one for a minute'.

I'd also try the kill them with kindness approach. At least at first, then start to get firmer. IME this obtains much better results than coming in strict and relaxing over time.

[pixiepotter]

No point threatening that sort of child with telling/writing to their liberal parents because liberal parents will just take the kids side, and teh children know this.

[LurkingCinners]

Pastsellbydate, thanks for that link. It made my bed time reading and was so useful!

[AllergyMums]

Teen. Love that show.

[Ferguson]

If you do write to parents, as Menolly suggests, do you need to advise the Head about it as well?

[TeenAndTween]

Perhaps you should show them the penultimate episode of Outnumbered? Sounds like you have a class full of Karen Brockmans!