Has tutoring for 4 and 7+ always gone on?

[Margetts]

I am new to MN and am amazed at the amount of tutoring that seems to be going on with such young children.
Has this always happened or is it relatively new?
Where we live I no children sit academic exams as such a young age. Personally I think it's a lot of pressure for both parent and DC which can't be good for DC.

[mumteacher]

Op tutoring at these ages has always gone on in some form or another. Certain nurseries have relationships with certain selective primary schools and so these children will be coached by the nursery prior to the assessment on the activities that form the assessment. Exit results of these nurseries directly link to the fees these private nurseries charge.

For those parents who work all hours and want to send their children to super selective school but don't have the luxury of being able to send their children to these types of nurseries (logistics), have little choice but to use a tutor. The benchmark is being raised each year and a mediocre nursery with little input from parents may not be enough.

And of course now there's a class for everything...painting class, cooking class, gynastics class that pre school can undertake.

Eg some of these selective schools say to put children in trainers as physical activity will form part of the assessment process. If your child has taken part in a gymnastics class for a term or two they are bound to have better physical control etc then a child left with an iPad for hours. (You can get some great iPad apps so not knocking it but you get my point).

I am talking about London based schools.

[meditrina]

They're assessing the parents and checking the child doesn't bite and has a little more than to say than 'bum'.

[dashoflime]

I spent ages consoling him about this supposed "failure."
We even looked into whether he could get periods of ill health taken into account. All before the grades were in. Then a first. The numpty.

[Elibean]

dashoflime

Oh I can't relate to your friend at all. A worrier? Pah

[Margetts]

Sorry , I understand now.

[AmIIndecisive]

Sorry thought Artandco was talking about what they were asked to do prior to starting the school (once a place was secured) and that was the only thing we were told to do pre starting.

For DS's school entry itself, he had to do an Assessment and successful applicants were called back for a second Assessment and the parents were also interviewed separately.

[Margetts]

For a highly selective prep the only conditions to entrance was being able to dress yourself??
Surely he had to pass an interview first?

[AmIIndecisive]

Before my son started school (highly selective London), all that was asked of us was practicing getting dressed and undressed for games quickly.

[Tailtwister]

I find the idea of having to teach your child the basics before even starting school really unusual. When I asked the teachers at DS1's school what he needed to know before he started, they said the practical stuff like dressing, using the toilet, using cutlery etc. They actually said they didn't want me to start doing anything like teaching him to read in case he found it confusing.

That said, although he did have to have an assessment before being offered a place it doesn't sound anything like the selective schools in London. Generally, people would apply to several schools here and usually get an offer in a couple, if not all.

[IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM]

margetts I find all this fascinating. Your wood thing has reminded me on continental DC who do not go to school until much older thank UK.

[IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM]

Thanks tell.

Now I am confused as to what a nursry is and what pre school is.

For instance my DD went to nursery attached to school from 3.

[Margetts]

Surely children at the age 4 shouldn't have to be used to sitting down for long periods of time!
IMO little children learn a lot through play and experimenting. The state nursery where my DC went took the children to the woods every week. They had a wonderful time exploring, turning trees into hair dressers and garages! The children were also able to build up physical confidence. They also learnt how to work in a team building dens out of branches.

[tellmeonasunday]

The phrase was "more difficult to keep to task" and I've heard that exact same phrase from two different schools. Basically, girls who go to preschools are more used to sitting down for a longer period of time and doing school type things, than girls who go to nurseries where they do more free play and less "school" activities.

[dashoflime]

Elibean I think to be fair my friend is a bit of a worrier. According to him he was going to "fail" his degree. He got a 1st. His notes are probably not so bad!

[Elibean]

dashoflime just to balance what your friend said, I have niece who has just finished her PhD (at Oxford), who also had a bog standard state education, and who found she had the advantage as an Undergrad in coping with self-motivated learning. She did her first degree at Oxford too, and was astounded at how 'helpless' some of her privileged mates seemed - she may have been referring to life and washing, as well as study, and obviously it was a youthful pov, but still

That said, she had privately educated MC parents who supported her education, along with her bog standard comp.

[saganoren]

I think it's a London thing, I wasn't tutored for my very academic non-London school back in the day it would have been seen as ludicrous, but my bf had a tutor and so did her brother for 7plus in London.

Having said that I didn't tutor my dcs for 7+ from a state primary and they got places just fine, afaik most of their peers weren't tutored either, though admittedly many were at pre-preps that prepared them. And I know children who were tutored who didn't get places. I think it's very hard to train such young children for exams, they're either mature enough to cope or not.

[IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM]

I have been told by the admissions woman at one of these schools that they find it much harder to take girls from nurseries than preschools as they don't do the tasks as well.


I really don't understand this...please tell us what you mean sunday

[AmIIndecisive]

I agree Artandco, doing normal things and having conversations with your kids is probably the best thing you can do, recipes, shopping, talking about their day, getting them to do errands etc all help with following instructions and learning the basics and think that's just parenting.

Still don't really get the difference though, my kids I am sure went to nursery but did socialise etc.

[Artandco]

Nursery - I thought this was childcare from 0-4 years , can be all day.

Pre school - 2-3 hrs a day a few days a week for 3/4 year olds, not really childcare, more to let kids socialise/ get taught school ish things

[Artandco]

I think we have a good balance in learning and being a child. Most things are incorporated anyway ie I will get ds1 (4) to follow a basic cake recipe with my help, measure and work out what he needs etc.. That's just everyday learning but emphasising that he works out the numbers/ recognising them/ calculating etc himself where he can. Or I will get him to practice writing in terms of a short shopping list ie milk / eggs/ 6 apples then we will go and buy and get him to read the labels to check what type/ amounts of things, and get him to add up those few items and work out what money's what etc etc

( god we sound boring!)

[AmIIndecisive]

Yes what is the difference between a Nursery and a Pre school?

[AmIIndecisive]

Thanks Tellmeonasunday, agree its a tricky one and yes I am sure these schools and the skills they teach will benefit (most of) the children.

I also don't want to criticise anyone for wanting the best for their kids and doing what they can, I just worry sometimes about them losing their childhood because of the pressures of our mad society.

[IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM]

I have been told by the admissions woman at one of these schools that they find it much harder to take girls from nurseries than preschools as they don't do the tasks as well

what does this mean

[IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM]

I have no objection to tutoring. I just said we don't hire a tutor. What we do is what I would call parenting not tutoring, surely most parents do the same

Yes I did most of what you said but with our DC I just could not get to them to do things before they were naturally ready.

I was told to start her on piano very young, but a piano teacher told me unless they have genuine natural talent and will pick it up quickly, she said I would be paying for 6 months of lessons to grasp things, If I wait until say 6....they would get in one or two lessons.

This is how I have felt about doing things with them at home, they have been exposed as it were...but things for my DD in particular only fell into place at just before 6. Now she is literally flying along and very very fast...

There were moments when Peers said at 3 : so and so has a good pencil grip now and can write his name..."

I would go back to dc and try again but felt there was no way I could force them to get it, when they were not ready and now, I feel justified in that.

However my living in a parallel universe comment is not a criticism.

I believe education is all.

What worries me is that if DC are 11+ material they will be up against DC from such high powered back grounds...will she really have a chance.

These children are being prepped from 22 months some of them?!

What has concerned me about reading the other thread, is that it seems to me, that there is a huge gap in aspirations from say my DC school to some schools mentioned on here.

How can state compete, or perhaps someone can a lay my fears.

Now my DC are flying along I am fully intending on supporting them where I can but I am no professional!