Is child really bright or is this just the norm is certain areas?

[Knacks]

My Yr4 child has just got end of yr results and got 4a 4a and 4b (apparently this is the level expected at end yr6). Is this normal in certain areas/schools or is this an exception and should we be looking into alternatives (although I have no idea what...)? The school don't have G&T and apparently work at different levels within the classroom although she loves the school and only about once a week comes home saying it was dull and too easy but she's generally just very happy. What do the results go up to anyway before they change the grading structure?

[Jinsei]

Most children in state schools will be working at level 4 in year 6

Not at dd's school! Around 50-60% get level 5s at her state primary each year, with a good scattering of level 6s. There are quite a few children in dd's year 3 class already working at a level 4.

Given the selective nature of private education, I'd be surprised and concerned if they were not working somewhat ahead of national expectations!

[poppydoppy]

"Most" as in the NC expected level will be level 4, of course there are children way below this and way above.

[Farewelltoarms]

Poppy - most affluent well-supported children without additional needs in a state school will be working at level 5 plus too. Once you extrapolate socio economic factors the difference is far smaller than you'd think.

Blimey though I thought my boy was doing really well (4bs and 4c at Easter) but clearly he'd hardly scrape the top set in St mumsnet academy (ofsted outstanding).

What a school that would be. Everyone's child would arrive in reception a free reader...

[Jinsei]

So what's your point?

[Farewelltoarms]

My point Jinsei?
Or presume you we're addressing Poppy.
I'm generally a bit pointless...

[Redlocks30]

Well, I am very pleased that DS has happlily sailed through the 11+ without ever having to do a holiday homework pack!

[irregularegular]

As you've probably gathered, it's not unusual. My Yr 4 DS just got 5b in maths/writing/reading and 5c in science. One other boy that I know of got similar (and many got 4s). It's a state school in an affluent area. Tbh, i'm wondering if they have overmarked. Not so much in maths, but in the others. Yes, he and his friend are bright, but if you look at national figures, this would be pretty exceptional. And I don't believe he's ahead of where his sister was in literacy. Still, I think I'll look a bit of a loom if I query it, so I probably won't bother - but I won't put too much weight on it either.

[irregularegular]

Ummm, loon, not loom.

[curlew]

"What a school that would be. Everyone's child would arrive in reception a free reader..."

Level 4 at least by year 3........

[forehead]

If i was paying an arm and a leg for private education, i would bloody well expect my kid to be ahead. As another poster pointed out, children who have supportive and/or well educated parents are achieving high levels in state schools.

[Farewelltoarms]

There's nothing wrong in wanting your child to do well, but I don't see why some private users seem so desperate to compare their child to the plodders at state school.

Isn't it enough that your child is doing well or does everyone else's child have to do badly?

[Jinsei]

My point Jinsei?
Or presume you we're addressing Poppy.
I'm generally a bit pointless...

Sorry, yes, that was meant for Poppy. Your point was quite clear.

And yes, I think you're right, some parents who choose private schools for their dc seem desperate to see those in state schools do badly. God forbid that some little upstarts should get a decent education without paying for it!

[AvonCallingBarksdale]

Given the selective nature of private education, I'd be surprised and concerned if they were not working somewhat ahead of national expectations!

But in many cases, it's selective only in a financial sense, isn't it, which certainly doesn't guarantee academic success. Round here it's all 11+ and grammars - I think there's an (unspoken) feeling that some DC who continue into private post Year6 are only doing so because they didn't pass the 11+.
And, yes, totally agree that with some people there seems to be almost a desire for state school children to not do as well as private, just because the privately educated DC have parents who have paid, ergo it must be better! Is it to vindicate their decision ? Who knows! Personally I couldn't care less, as long as my own DC are fulfilling their potential.

[Jinsei]

Of course it's selective - not necessarily in the sense of entrance examinations and so on, but certainly in the sense of having interested and supportive patents who place a high value on education. And we all know that these things make a difference!

[Growlithe]

Jinsel ooh naughty. There are plenty of interested and supportive parents who place a high value on education, that do not believe in private education.

The state education system is full of them. And they are making a difference too.

[musicalfamily]

Also have a DD1 with secure L4s at the end of Y3. Not sure about the comment about free readers in reception. None of mine could read in reception but they all seemed to catch up in Y1/Y2.

I must admit that I also wonder whether DD's levels were inflated as she goes to such a laid back school in many ways - no homework to speak of and when I went to the open day there was little evidence of written work or maths. I certainly don't think she's stretched and we don't do much at home apart from maths (occasionally). I am sure the coasting culture will not serve her well long term.

I agree that bright, well supported children generally do well in state schools, of course I will never know what my DD1 would have got to if she was in private, probably L5s or probably not, who knows?!!!

[Elibean]

I think my dd1 would illustrate the point made - that reasonably bright well supported children do well in state education. She is not amazingly bright, nor hardworking, but she is moderately aware and has a good vocab and parents who make sure she learned her times tables.

Ergo, she is on L4s at the end of Y4 and destined for 5-6 depending on subject and motivation.

And as about half her class are in the same boat in terms of supportive parents, about half are going to do just as well. There are, otoh, a few very bright kids who don't know how to focus or behave in ways that help further their education....with no support, or very little. They should be ahead of dd, especially in maths, but they almost certainly won't be.

It's hugely unfair (but at least not dependent on finances).

[poppydoppy]

Also now that tutoring is the "norm" it will skew the results somewhat. Good schools tend to have good parents.

[harryhausen]

My dd has just received a 4c for literacy and Maths for Y3. She's at a fairly unexceptional state school. It doesn't give out much homework. The teaching is fantastic. However, it's a very friendly community school and she's exceptionally happy.

Which ever poster said that the key to success is happiness had it spot on.

My dd may coast next year? Her peers may all catch her up? However, so long as she's happy and doing well herself - I'm happy.

[AvonCallingBarksdale]

Of course it's selective - not necessarily in the sense of entrance examinations and so on, but certainly in the sense of having interested and supportive patents who place a high value on education. And we all know that these things make a difference!

Don't get that - although I think different areas make a difference. Here (Bucks) the state primaries have very, very engaged, supportive pushy parents, so maybe that's why the state schools are full of high achieving DC. Who knows, but definitely the child being happy is the most important factor here.

[BigBoobiedBertha]

Farewelltoarms - neither of my two could read a word when they started school. No interest so I didn't push it. Does that mean they wouldn't get in MN academy despite an array of level 4a's from DS2 now.

I'm calling Gove. What kind of academy is this?!

[smee]

poppy, what do you mean by 'good parents'. Those that will tutor/ pay? Really?

Purely anecdotal, but my DS goes to inner city state school in a deprived area. Lots of kids on free school meals, lots of kids with English as a second language. Last year 35% got L5's in yr6, it's going to be more like 50% this year apparently. He's Yr4 atm and there are a lot of kids working at L4.

[Jinsei]

Jinsel ooh naughty. There are plenty of interested and supportive parents who place a high value on education, that do not believe in private education.

Grow, I know, I'm one of them! But I don't know many parents who choose private education who don't give a toss.

My point is not that the parents of privately educated kids care more, rather that the children of parents who are interested and supportive will tend to do better than the children of parents who don't give a toss. And while many parents of state educated children are interested and supportive, there can't be that many disinterested parents who would bother to spend £££ on a private education --unless they just couldn't wait to pack them off to boarding school.

In light of this, I think it's to be expected that private schools will get better results because a higher proportion of the children will have interested and supportive parents. However, that doesn't mean that the privately educated children will necessarily get better results than their state school peers who are from equally interested and supportive homes.

In other words, I don't think it is the schools that are making the difference!

[smee]

Not true, Jinsel. My SIL teaches in a private school and she has a theory that a fair number of the kids she teaches are just items parents throw money at.

The teachers at her (v.good / well established prep) get put under no end of pressure to achieve L5 for the kids because the parents expect it as they're paying. Last year a parent threatened to sue because their poor child didn't reach L5. SIL said it was awful as the poor child just wasn't academic in that way.

I'm really not tarring all private parents by saying that, but you can't assume more will care just because they pay. With a fair number they care because they expect a return.

[Jinsei]

But clearly they do care, otherwise the kids/teachers would be under no pressure to achieve, would they? They might care about the wrong things - results over and above the wellbeing of their children! - but they clearly are interested and place a high value on the results that their children get.

I am not making any comment whatsoever on the quality of the parenting, positive or otherwise. I'm merely saying that the majority of parents who pay for an expensive private education probably place a high value on education, and that this is likely to be reflected to some extent in the values of their children.