readings levels and predictions for later success

[sillybillies]

I'm new here and mainly started reading as was interested in reading levels etc. However, I teach at the other end of education, mainly post 16 A levels in biology and psychology. Having recently had a parents evening about my DD (she's in reception). Somehow it came up in my psychology lesson and we got off topic and starting discussing how well they had done in primary school. I was amazed at the variety of answers with couple of boys saying they struggled to learn to read (now getting C/B grades at A level) and others saying they were high fliers but now feel they were just average.

What made me concerned was one of the girls was clearly quite upset by the fact that she was top of the year in primary and struggling at A level. I must teach several students each year that were high fliers in year 7 but level off by A level and lose confidence.

I just wanted to bring this up as reading so many comments about reading levels of 4 and 5 year olds it makes me feel quite sad as clearly we all progress at our own rate and it is so important to keep that in mind. Now off to apply own theory to my own parenting and will from now on stop reading about reading levels!!

Wondered what some of you primary teachers thought about this?

[swanker]

I thought prior attainment was one of the best indicatorS?

[lulurose]

Yes if a child scores well for Dispositions and attitudes, there are many other scale points that can link in, leading to high overall scores in many cases Absolutely key for learning to take place.

[mrz]

I've also taught reception and moderated the FS profile ( since before EYFS ) and I am well aware of the picture in my area ... and we don't use profile scores to predict NC outcomes

[ggirl]

Mashabell- fascinating post!

[IndigoBell]

Camicaze - the reason other kids are ahead of English kids in maths is to do with the language.

In Chinese 23 is pronounced 'two tens plus three', and most other languages numbers are more regular than English, (think of 11, 12, 13...) which is why at 4 kids are ahead....

[IndigoBell]

Rice Paddies and Maths Tests

[Annsterpie]

My son started reading at 18 months. I was told that I should not have taught him out to read as it will only confuse him when he gets to primary. I could not believe I was scolded for taking the time to teach my child. He showed interest at an early age and I only encouraged it. He is now two and he still loves to read. He enjoys trips to the library.

I am not sure how he will do when it comes to school when he starts and up until the time he graduates. I hope that he will keep his interest in reading from this point on.

I did not teach him out to read because I thought it would be better for him when he started school or because of any reasearch stating he would be smarter or more of a leader as he got older, but because he showed an interest in books, letters and numbers at a very early age.

[JemimaMop]

I'm not a primary school teacher, but I do find this quite interesting.

I was a precocious reader, I learnt to read in my first language at 3 and my second at 4. I was top of the class at everything at primary.

I didn't do badly at secondary by any stretch of the imagination, I got AABB in my A levels and a 2:1 in my degree, but I certainly wasn't brilliant IYSWIM.

All 3 of my DC are "top of the class" at reading (all in primary) and I do wonder whether they will retain their positions or if it will all even out as they get older.

[JemimaMop]

"In Chinese 23 is pronounced 'two tens plus three', and most other languages numbers are more regular than English, (think of 11, 12, 13...) which is why at 4 kids are ahead...."

In Welsh there are two versions of numbers.

For example children learn un-deg-wyth for 18, which literally translates as one-ten-eight. But as adults we use deunaw, which is a less logical word, similar to eleven, eighteen etc.

It is far easier for children to learn un-deg-un, un-deg-dau, un-deg-tri etc.

[camicaze]

Indigo bell/JemimaMop the research did look at the chinese language advantage but the reasearchers seemed to think that although this was significant it was more significant that that the children had loads of formal teaching of more advanced concepts in their nursery schools and it was cultural to teach your child maths yourself. 20 months is quite a whopping advance. It means the average 4 year old has the maths skills of our average child starting yr2. The point is that these children have not picked this up by osmosis. You have to have learnt to manipulate the numbers. I guess you could argue that it was easier for parents to teach their children because it was an easier job to start them off with place value.
I've read the rice paddy stuff and it rather backs up my point.
There was not the same number naming advantage in Finland I think. But the skills tested were much more than number naming or even basic place value anyway.
The point is that if we are debating about our children starting much earlier than in other countries we need to bear in mind that in our country 4 year olds can't learn place value by osmosis and we never catch up with countries like China and Finland. If we actually caught up with these countries it would be irrelevant - but we don't.

[JemimaMop]

Interestingly the Welsh Foundation Phase curriculum (which goes up to the end of Year 2) was influenced the Scandinavian model.

I suppose changing teh curriculum doesn't change the parents though.

[camicaze]

Annsterpie. I really wouldn't worry about your son reading already. I waited especially with dd2, who I could easily have taught as she was more than ready. Once at school she so quickly took off that she was never at the same stage as the rest of her class anyway. Very quickly the children spread out and some are reading well while others still haven't learnt all their sounds. My dd found all the group stuff fun anyway.

Will her early reading acquisition mean she is academically strong? Well the research I've read suggests that those that are avid readers benefit from all the exposure to language and concepts that reading provides. However, some children that don't take off as fast still become avid readers. There is a clear link between weak reading skills and poor attainment - but thats not quite the same.
When I am teaching A level History its quite easy to spot the weak readers, not just when they read but because of the lack of sophistication in their use of language and their inability to distinguish between shades of meaning due to a paucity of vocabulary.

[camicaze]

Yes Jemimamop that was what struck me reading that bit of research. It was interesting that the Finnish parents didn't claim to teach their children at all. I got the impression that it was a bit like in our country not ever thinking we have taught our children maths even though they could count to ten before school and maybe count some items. If you are in a culture where children don't begin formal school till 7 then maybe you would view teaching place value etc like we do counting to ten - nothing to do with any attempt at formal teaching.

[Sandra2011]

I'm originally from Finland and was lucky enough to enjoy that wonderful education.

I have noticed that language education has changed since I was in that age.
My nephew who is 15 can have a proper fluent conversation in English which I don't think I was able to do in that age.

I simply think the secret of education in Finland is high quality teachers.
They all must have Masters Degree.
How can children learn if teachers are no good?

I have always thought that when I have kids I want them to go to school there.
Well... now I have a 2 year old and I'm pregnant with another one.
I want to see how his school starts and then will think about the situation again. But I think we're lucky to have that option.