AIBU to want to move out of outer London because ds's nursery/reception is now over 90% kids without English as their first language?

[Noellefielding]

I'm concerned about his language development - whether it could be hampered by being among so many children who are not fluent.

I'm worried about what that will mean for him socially and also my potential for having much of a relationship with families whose cultures are miles away from my own.

I would love to stay for dd who is 8 and doing fine at school (this cultural change has happened very recently and fairly rapidly). And has a good local secondary to go to now it's been rebuilt and totally rejuvenated by good staff and high standards etc.

I love the richness of a multi cultural setting but am nervous of it being somehow detrimental to him. I also am worried about the school becoming predominantly Muslim. I have tons of respect for Islam and the kids are great but I have very liberal views and would certainly not choose a Muslim school for my child because it's not my culture and I am uneasy about some of the cultural messages that are going out from and into this community. Some messages are good, don't get me wrong, but I just wonder how I can feel at home anymore, maybe I just need to relax and accept the world is a global village now and stop wanting to run off to somewhere homegeneous (sp)
I mean NO offence to anyone. I'm genuinely interested in the experience of those who've stayed and those who've gone. I'm not interested in the opinion of hecklers, hope that's ok!

[southofthethames]

YANBU - I think you should move (if you have the resources to move to a preferred catchment area) to whichever area has the school you feel your child would best flourish in.

[hester]

You should be fine in Kentish Town, venni!

did you know there's also a bilingual state primary school in fulham?

[magicmummy1]

I think diversity in a school is a huge asset. I would be unhappy about dd going to a school where only one group and culture was dominant - whichever group or culture that might be.

Our school is luckily very multicultural, and I see this as a huge positive. As for mum friends for me, there are plenty - I am close to other parents who happen to be White British, but I have also become very close to parents who are Chinese, Pakistani, Turkish, Iranian and Nigerian. It isn't an issue tbh - we're all just parents.

FWIW, we do have quiz nights (I don't go), cake sales (I eat but rarely bake!) and lovely evenings out in pubs and restaurants. I have also found that a number of the non-british families like to host not only dd but me and DH as well. We have had some great evenings like this, and it has been a great experience for all of us to help these families celebrate their various festivals and sample all their foods etc.

OP, if your school is really diverse, your dc won't really be in a minority - they just won't be in the majority. Keep an open mind, and you might find that there are plenty of potential friends for you too! :)

[swash]

Thanks for the kind words, builder.

[venni]

hester we are considering moving near Kentish Town (as the French-Eng Bilingual School is there).

[Madsometimes]

Actually I think zone 3 is a fairly good bet for multicultural London. Yes there may be a few schools that buck that trend, and I can only speak for SE London, but I cannot think of many monocultural schools.

My children go to a school which is 40% white, 60% non white, mainly black African but others too. Disproportionately not Asian because school is Catholic, but certainly mixed and we are in zone 3. The local schools which are considered to be very white tend to have 60% white and 40% non-white. Any black, white or mixed family should feel like there are others like them in our local schools.

[hester]

It's not that simple, venni - there are some very mixed communities in all London zones. Where were you thinking of moving to?

[venni]

Yentil - this is why I lose sleep at night! We are moving from France to London this summer. We are a black-American family. DD has been the only brown-skinned girl in her class in 4 years of schooling in France. I want DD to have a culturally mixed school environment in London. Is it Zone 3 where we must stay to avoid a repeat of the solid white school situation we've had here in France? I think that the cultural change for DD (from France to London) will be enough without having to deal with racial issues (which she never really experienced here in France).

[builder]

Swash

It can be easy to envy something that you don't have but believe everyone else is experiencing. However, there are probably tensions between parents in the other school that you don't perceive. Plus, the initial euphoria of finding other mums who you think have similar values can wear off when you find out their true beliefs.

My children are at a very mixed school (culturally). The next school along is very similar to the one that you envy. However, the parents at that school don't all share the same views. There are Guardinista types, posh types who are just planning a move the local private school, single mums etc. They may look on the surface more like me (similar age, educational background etc.) but when you get closer, it's not a harmonious gathering each afternoon in the playground.

Make friends for yourself - there are no friendships at the school gates once children start secondary school.

[builder]

I think that this is a very brave discussion to have.

My feeling is that multicultural is great. And by that I mean a bit of everything. That is what we have at our school.

However, I would not be so happy (I think) if the school was a monoculture, even if it was my culture.

[yentil]

my dd is in a 'white' school in a middle class area in london and she has been excluded from playdates, parties, sleepovers etc (even though both of her parents and herself are british born - but i guess the colour of her skin predominates the colour of her passport)and i really regret sending her there and wished we hadn't moved to zone 5 for 'ofsted rated outstanding' schools and stayed in multi ethnic/cultural zone 3 'at the ofsted rated satisfactory/good' school. i have to spend our precious evenings telling her how beautiful she is and how lucky she is to have family who love and care for her even though the kids at her school think she's just come in on the banana boat!

i myself know that she will be better off in the future because i've been there. she'll not struggle mixing in the big wide world and complain about 'germans'on holiday it just means i have to put extra ground work in now to keep her self-esteem high whilst she runs the gauntlet in her narrow-minded primary school - who yes are the product of white flight - bird of a feather flock together!

[nzshar]

In our our area (within M25 but not london) there are 4 local schools. 3 have a good mix but one has a specialised unit for english as a second language. I know when I was looking at school 2 years ago I did not even consider this school. Not for any reason other than my son dosen't need this unit. Therfore this school has become very polarised in their ethinicty cover. I would not be happy if a school such as this was my only choice.

[mrszimmerman]

these are all really useful posts, thanks very much for taking the trouble to post here.

I feel for swash because the school used to be more of a laugh in those respects you describe and now feels not as much fun. But I'm thinking hard about all these things and what matters most.

[drivingmisscrazy]

quod your experiences echo mine also in London at a slightly earlier era - sikh, muslim, cypriot, West Indian (from various different islands), Pakistani, vietnamese, Hindu, Irish etc. Many of these kids didn't speak english at home and there was no support for them at school. Most of them spoke with the same glorious south east london twang as the rest of us and like you I only felt it to be beneficial and have been sad that my adult life has been (by accident of education and work dictating where I live) far more blandly monocultural. The kid who stood out most at my school had moved from the Isle of Lewis and had been in a tiny school - no-one could understand anything he said, poor lad!

[Portofino]

Quodlibet, this is what I want for my dd! It is the world she lives in. On the downside, education in Belgium is secular. They divide them into Islamique, Catholique, Morales for 2 hours a week. I would much prefer that it was mixed.

[Quodlibet]

I don't have kids yet so can't talk as a parent but wanted to put in my perspective of having been one of the minority white children when I was at primary school in the early 80s.
I went to a school in outer London which was then probably about 15% white, in a predominantly asian area. I can honestly say that I loved the experience and have really fond memories of celebrating Diwali, Eid, Hannukah, Passover, Ramadan, Harvest Festival, Chinese new year as well as Christmas and easter. Small children naturally see similarity not difference and my friends were Bengali, Philipino, Pakistani - Muslim, Hindu and Sikh - in infant school. I know all schools are different but in my case the cultural mix didn't hold me back in the slightest - I even got to learn Urdu for a bit because I was interested in it in Yr 2!

I think that my early experiences have given me massive advantages in terms of cultural understanding and reference points and an ability to get on with people different from myself. When you're thinking about what how it will effect your kids, don't discount the potential positives of the experience. I'm not discounting the challenges that a school might face with a really high turnover of transient pupils, but that's a different problem to the cultural diversity issue. Why do we narrow our worlds down by assuming we can't make worthwhile friendships with people different to ourselves? It's certainly easier if you start young!

[smallpotato]

My DD1's best friend from preschool is hungarian. They communicate fine even though the little girl only speaks hungarian at home and english at preschool. We have been to her house and she switches perfectly between the languages, it's not an issue. Her mum is loveLy too and speaks good english.

[smallpotato]

My DD1's best friend from preschool is hungarian. They communicate fine even though the little girl only speaks hungarian at home and english at preschool. We have been to her house and she switches perfectly between the languages, it's not an issue. Her mum is loveLy too and speaks good english.

[swash]

Well okay - dh would veto the camping trips because he hates camping but I would like the option! And I guess we do have cake sales of a slightly pathetic sort.

And littleducks it is the emergency mum network that is lacking, though I guess people would help if I really needed it.

nailak you are right in a way and I have been pleasantly surprised at some of the acquaintances I have made. I guess I would just like some real friends too.

Given the option I would have moved - so I get what the OP is saying.

[drivingmisscrazy]

hester I'm particularly interested in your perspective on this - it's not an issue for us (the opposite, actually - the school DD will go to is predominantly white as well, but we don't live in the UK, but the lack of diversity - social and racial - is a problem for me), but I'm also conscious of the potential clash between my belief system and that of others - e.g. cultures where the idea of gay parents is unthinkable. I'm not sure in all conscience that I can put DD in a context, aged under 5, where she has to deal with that (and this is the reason why she will not go to a Catholic school which accounts for 95% of primary school provision) - although I recognise that these issues will have to be faced. I need her to feel that her family is not stigmatized as far as possible, and this conflicts with my general enthusiasm for genuine multi-culturalism (which was what I experienced in London in the 1970s and 1980s - not without conflicts)

[littleducks]

And just reading swash's message....i hate the idea of camping trips/quizzes/cake sales.....maybe I am just antisocial

[littleducks]

OP- I dont have any close friends met at school tbh, but I wasnt really expecting to, I'm not a SAHM and normally rush off. I am more than happy that there are several mums who I chat to, could call/txt if I needed dd picked up in an emergency.

[nailak]

sounds hard, i think in my experience some friendships that are new and with people you may not have neccessarily befriended in the past, take work to establish and maintain, but once you start them you will be pleasantly suprised at how normal the people are.

[swash]

Oh and it is a very small school so there aren't that many people to start with! And the PTA is held together by a very few stalwarts because most of the parents really don't care enough to help or are too intimidated to offer.

Just adding my bit because I know what the OP is saying about missing out, and I think it is true. Socialising is a massively important part of primary school and it is gutting not to be a true part of it. Can't stand my friends talking about their school pub quizes and camping trips and cake sales etc etc. It's just not like that in my school, and I would love it if it was!

[swash]

I talk to everyone - no problem. In fact I am probably the only mum who does. I also do the PTA - again no problem apart from the fact that I have limited time to help. I would say I have one friend there (mother of a boy sadly) and many acquaintances. But the friendships are not the same as ones I have made outside school with women who roughly share my values/interests. Those friendships are easy and enjoyable - getting together is easy and enjoyable.

With the school mums, it isn't easy for various reasons. Language/culture is one (Both DH and I have lived in other countries for several years but it is hard to make friends with a 20-something from a wildly different culture who doesn't work or speak much), different values, massive age gaps, different work ethic. I go to the park sometimes and it is easy to chat - but it just isn't that satisfying for me. It's not real friendship.

We all live a fair way away from each other, so playdates are a hassle. I have had kids here - two were hideously behaved, two were lovely but their parents do not do playdates! I work so I can't always be the host, plus I don't drive which makes it tricky. Also - and now you are going to flame me - DD is bright and naturally drawn to the few other bright girls in her class. She is not interested in the girls who are very young in their interests, which is a lot of the girls in her class. So the pool of friends to choose from is limited.

It's not terrible, it's just not what I would have at the other school - mates, people we see at ballet, women I knew when dd was a baby and still see around - and most importantly loads of girls that DD just gets on with brilliantly and effortlessly. Just really feel that she is missing out.