Can TA be in charge of class?

[tryingtokeepintune]

Just spoke to someone whose child is in a school I am thinking of sending dd next year. She said that because there are only 15 children in the class, they need only 1 adult. There is a CT (and TA, I think) for 2 and half days and a TA for 2 and half days. I thought there should be a teacher in the class most of the time.

What is the legal position?

[mrz]

In reception the EYFS says children should have a key person and for some children this may be the TA. Personally I see it as my role to be key person for all my class but it varies.

[brimfull]

My friend is a TA in reception class.
She has bugger all qualifications and regularly takes the class in the independent school she works in.
SHe thinks it's appalling ,both the fact that she is paid crap wages and made to take too much responsibilty and that the parents are non the wiser

[duvetdays]

mrz - at home he likes helping with dough/ pastry, mixing etc when cooking. I'm an artist, so for instance we painted with acrylics on canvas a couple of weeks ago on the dining room table and the poster paints come out for printmaking too. tbh i'm a bit of a fusspot about wet dirty mess (surprisingly) and food on floor and furniture, so he might have picked up on that.

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but i was really wondering more about the way a TA would have less training than a teacher in communicating with both parents and pupils

[mrz]

Not in those words but I might ask if he engages in messy play outside of school
messy play

[duvetdays]

the TA in my ds class told me last week that as he didn't like messy play, he was missing out. I wondered whether a qualified teacher would make a statement like this or whether it's fair comment.

[mrz]

Give the choice I would pick a school like school 2 rather than either of the others for my children.

[tryingtokeepintune]

Hi Cakes - friend told me about part-timne teacher as in - we are not very happy about it but there is nothing we can do. Also, although ta is competent, she is not very dynamic. Feeling is that she is just doing this till she retires in a couple of years time.

I was told next year, because there are almost 30 in the class, they will have a teacher and a ta so dd should be all right.

However, makes me wonder about things like infants nativity, sprots day etc - think teacher will be stretched then.

[cakesaregood]

My DS was in reception last year. It was his 3rd school (due to moving).

1st school - class of 30 yr Rs - full time class teacher and TA - she was studying so had PPA time and at least another half day off a week so DS had a variety of supply teachers for these.

2nd school - class of 30 mixed year Rs and year 1s. Full time teacher and TA

3rd school - class of 11, class teacher 4 mornings a week, head covered all day on 5th day. HLTA who 'provided continuity'.

I had done some voluntary work in the 1st school, so know how the class worked (carpet time, phonics, group time, free play etc).

I had doubts about having a part time teacher, but within 6 weeks of DS being at the 3rd school, Mrs X was established as a very respected teacher in DS's eyes. The proportion of teacher time and attention he had was equal or above what he'd had at the other schools - due to the lower numbers.

Yes the law states this is wrong, but it seems the small schools locally have a choice - 3 classes with FT teachers or 4 classes with a part time teacher in one of the classes. From my experience, this is definitely the best option.

I guess what I'd say to OP in the light of this is go and have a look at the school, meet the HLTA if you can. Has your friend told you about the part time teacher because you 'should be aware...' or because she's a great teacher?

Good luck with your choices!

[Hulababy]

gillybeanz - You don;t have to be a HLTA to be left in charge of a class. Level 3 TAs can be too.

[mrz]

It is not unlawful for a TA to be in charge of a class for short periods of supervision or under the supervision of a QTS

[gillybeanz]

It is unlawful for a TA unless higher level to be in charge of the children. A cover supervisor dan be in charge, teach the lesson but not plan it, although I have heard some schools ask them to.

Teachers undertake rigerous training in order to teach and have responsibility for the children and their learning

I have worked in support and am also a qualified teacher. No way would I or my head leave a TA in charge, nor would I have felt comfortable to do this as a TA

[mrz]

Sorry I missed the QCA bit in my haste to post. As we don't use QCA (it's absolute a bit rubbish) we wouldn't want anyone who using QCA units.

[mrz]

Talkinpeace my head has a bank of regular supply staff who previously worked either at my school or at his previous school (so we know the quality of their teaching)who we can call on when needed which means we don't need to use unknown agency staff or exploit TAs or break the law.

[mummytime]

Why don't you ask the school about it? When my DS was in reception his teacher had 6 weeks off with illness. The class was covered by two TAs, who were both qualified teachers (they were paid for the period as qualified teachers). Actually they were superior to his normal teacher and the RTP teacher he had the next year (on her final year so she could be in charge of a class).
My DCs school would be very willing to explain if such a situation existed. Don't forget that 10% of time is PPA (often covered by TAs) anyway, and PE might well be taken by a TA or HLTA too.

[tryingtokeepintune]

Having to rethink about sending dd to the school now.

I agree that some TAs are very experienced etc but I think it shows the school's attitude.

The woman I spoke to said she assumed someone had checked the legal position and although they were very unhappy, there was nothing they could do...It doesn't help that school is in a small affluent community and people want to support their local school - until those who can afford it get fed-up and go private (but no one complains - I think)

[Talkinpeace]

But
should the job have best been done by quacks (I shared halls with med students) or by nurses?
Deep down I am utterly in favour of the de medicalisation of much healthcare
as even grade C nurses have a better idea than many med students

[Adair]

Agree that v unfair on the TA. Nothing to do with her capability or not, but if doing a teacher's job on a TA salary... I don't like it.

Have seen the same thing happening with NHS, nurses being asked to do what would previously have been undertaken by Doctors. But paid the same.

[Feenie]

But QCA isn't the 'NC system'. QCA schemes were strait-jacket examples designed to 'help' schools deliver the NC. Most schools chose ages ago to ignore them.

[Talkinpeace]

Feenie,
pleased to hear it.
QCA - the whole ever so narrow NC system. box ticked, done attitude.
What DS school does is the best of a bad situation.
I'm glad other schools have even better choices

[Feenie]

Our governors have a policy which allows teachers only to teach. They see anything else as teaching on the cheap. We use supply teachers who are very well known to the school and employ a teacher to cover PPA. The Head also teaches (in fact, he covers my PPA time).

What are QCA points?

[Talkinpeace]

mrz
I know that you are a v v v diligent teacher
here's a scenario that schools in poorly resourced areas face weekly...
choice is - accept whatever supply staff are left at the agency
or use TA's who know the school and the kids and the QCA points

I'd be interested to know what your head would do but know from the schools DH has visited (av 150 / year) that the "law" is a central London management consultant ass that does not know how to help children learn.

[mrz]

It doesn't matter whether it is 1 class per year intake or 10 classes per year the law is clear. In the event of unplanned absence TAs can be asked to cover the class under the guidance of a teacher for planned absence as in the OP where the TA is covering half the week a TA can not cover.

[Talkinpeace]

I did not make myself clear.
The school is a 1 class per year intake.
There only are 8 official teachers including the HT.
These "TA" teachers are used for all short notice supply
and having been on the receiving end, they are FAR better than the emergency supply teachers.
The "law" is due for overturning if it is an impediment to effective classroom learning.
For all planned vacancies, supply is booked through the normal agency..

[Hulababy]

Talkinpeace - but even if the TAs are qualified teachers they are not exmployed - or paid - as teachers. They are employed as TAs and paid as TAs, therefore they should only being doing TA roles, not teaching. To do otherwise is to take a massive advantage of those members of staff - that is not good long term to the status of teachers and TAs alike.

[mrz]

Reception comes under infant class size regulations so must be led by a qualified teacher the school is breaking the law.