Fear of failure/perfectionism

[Decisions]

My dd is currently in Y3. She achieved a 2A in Reading, 2B in writing and 2B in Maths at the end of year 2.

We were satisfied, although perhaps a little surprised by these results. Our expectations were a little higher as DD has been free reader for most of school career and we have always been assured that she is doing really well at school.

However, I recently attended a meeting as a governor where statistics were being looked at (long, boring story). It came to my attention that my daughter was assessed as being able above her peers on entry to reception and remained so at the end of Reception. From that point on, although she has improved year on year, she has been over taken by a number of the class (shock horror!).

Again, this in itself is not a major issue, I know children have plateaus and development spurts. But it has come to our attention that our daughter has an unreasonable fear of failure eg. came out of school in Y1 in floods of tears as she'd only scored 9/10 in spellings. Was recently completing some maths homework on computer and burst into tears at first sight of first question. Having sat down and talked it through she was capable of answering the question but just panicked. She has a very able brother, which may not help, but we've always been really careful to value their efforts and achievements equally.

She has frequently not wanted to go to school - this has been worse sometimes than other times, eg she found Y1 particularly difficult because she found the teacher difficult. She still reverses some numbers as a consequence of good teaching she received before Y1 being undermined. Y2 was better, but she had a few peer related issues. She often complains of stomach ache and this always relates back to anxiety.

On further investigation it appears that she reacts very badly when put under any kind of perceived pressure - hated the actual KS1 SATs papers, hates working on the computer in class as friends constantly want to compare results etc. She says herself that she then rushes and puts in any old answers to deliberately do badly. Based on evidence before us, we now believe that these issues are having an adverse effect on our DDs achievement.

What do we do now? We have parents evening next week but are planning to book a seperate appointment to discuss these issues.

Is it worthwile pursuing any type of assessment? Being average is fine, we just don't want to ignore the issues.

[pippoltergeist]

I'm currently working with my DD to try and help her relax about getting things right 9with the help of her teachers). For example, she was constantly saying she hated maths and wasn't good at it, teachers was more than happy with her progress. It turned out that she was very worried about reversing numbers, would think it meant she was 'wrong' even when she had solved the maths problem correctly.

The school have put in place some methods of her assessing her own performance so she can try and separate the perception of failure from the actual results.

I was wondering if your DD ever sees anybody else 'failing' or struggling at home. You say that your DS is very able - may be she sees the rest of her family always achieving perfection (in her view) and feels she can't compete? Would it be possible to find a way to help her see that mistakes are good because you learn from them? Could you acknowledge your own mistakes to her, and show her that you just try again and that it's not a big issue?

[Decisions]

Totally agree about the seeing others make mistakes issue. We are a family of high achievers, so it is an issue for us.

However, we have read lots around the issue and work very hard to highlight our numerous mistakes, and to laugh about them - this has helped at home, but the issue seems to be more about school now.

[pippoltergeist]

Hopefully her teacher will have some ideas - I think you are right to book a separate appt. to discuss.

I was very pleasantly surprised at how well my DD's teacher handled the situation once we'd talked it through.

[Cortina]

I have seen some similar issues with my son. I tell him that teachers are there to help you learn, and mistakes are how we learn. I also say that teachers are not there to judge your talent but to watch you grow, learn and develop.

I also talk about my mistakes and how I moved on from them. Will read other answers with interest.

[mrz]

It is actually very difficult (and a lengthy process) to convince a child that it is OK to get things wrong. It is good they see adults make mistakes sometimes and that no one is infallible.

[Sammiez]

My dd is a terrible perfectionist especially since getting to Yr1. She didn't have these issues in reception and her teacher said she took great pride in her work and would attempt writing 'big' words without fear and they were 'readable'.
Now,I am so worried because she is quite able but is afraid of making mistakes. It is getting worse everyday. I have tried making mistakes deliberately but I think I am too 'transparent' as she asks me if I did it on purpose. Her Yr1 teacher has mentioned it too.
Perfectionism hinders but how does one cure it or explain it to them?
I will be watching this thread with great interest as I was about to start one with same subject.

[IndigoBell]

A couple of things we've done with my son to help with this.

1. When he gets a test at school they tell him it is to test the teacher - ie to test how good the teacher is at teaching. He loves that and writes all over the paper 'you didn't teach me that'
   
   
2. We've told him that he has to get some wrong so that we know how much he knows. ie if he gets them all right, then we wouldn't know if he could actually do more. So he is meant to get some wrong
   
   
3. Flat out tell him we expect him to get 13 / 15 on his spelling test....
   
   His perfectionisism is getting much better.

[AdelaofBlois]

It seems to me there is a difference between 'fear of mistakes' and 'perfectionism'. I was very much a perfectionist as a child-wanted to do things perfectly-and my parents responded by showing me how 'failures' weren't permanent-that the point was not the mark in the spelling test, but knowing the words, and that I could be calmed by being allowed to return to mistakes and correct them. I really thank them for that-it encouraged 'perfectionism' but also resilience to mistakes. Wonder if something like that might not help with your dd-i.e. well that didn't work, how could you do it better?

I'd also add, solely from personal experience that really clever kids (sorry if that sounds arrogant) sometimes can't see the point in a test except as an assessment and get frightened of (or in my case resistant to it) as a result. If you're interested in a topic and then given a test and you're bright enough to see the point is no longer to draw out your interest but just to test you the feeling of fear must be huge. Not sure that's 'perfectionism' though, it's to do with appreciating esteem (and can be countered by showing that what matters is the knowledge, not the test itself).

[singersgirl]

DS2 (9) has exactly that fear of failure - I think he's terrified that if he doesn't understand something, he must be not as clever as he thinks he is (which is a big deal for him as he's an intellectually arrogant little boy.) Unfortunately he doesn't encounter very many chances to try to the point of failure in his daily schooling and so when they happen he thinks he's failed in a bad way - not in a learning way.

We try to model getting things wrong (saying, for example, that if you know it all already, you're not learning, only practising) and are constantly working on the intellectual arrogance. It's a long lesson and we're some way off on both of them, I'm afraid.

He's not a perfectionist, though,and is happy with slipshod work as long as he knows it's just because he couldn't be bothered. Not a very helpful combination for him, and we're hoping with maturity will come perseverance.

[Litchick]

I see fear of failure as being one of the things that hold people back in all walks of life. It paralises growth more than anything else, I feel.

And it seems to stem from two places.

First, are those with no self confidence. They assume they won't be good enough, so don't try.

Second, are those that know they are pretty clever or talented, and are fearful of no longer holding their position of top dog. So they don't put themselves foward for assessment.

Both are insidious and will lead to the smae end point.

What I tell anyone prepared to listen is that you have to be in it to win it. There is no shame in failure. None at all. And from every failure we can take lessons and be better next time.

What can ever be lost by giving something a go? Loss of face? Bollocks to that.

Best way to teach kids, indeed adults, this is by example. Really go for something out of your comfort zone. Show them that you really don't care how it looks if you fail.

Paying lip service will only smack of hypocracy and kids smell that at twenty feet.

[maggiethecat]

This is helpful to me. Dd is going through phase of hating number work saying 'I'm rubbish' etc. Have a feeling that there's the fear of failure thing going on and although she understands the work she gets into a big panic.

Litchick thanks for that reminder - even in ordinary everyday things letting the dc have a go and do their own thing within reason must be a confidence booster. Too often I find that I am too instructive when I should be allowing them to make their own mistakes.

[Teacher401]

I think it's about a culture in a school of 'have a go' and if you get it wrong well look again and try again. I'm guessing somewhere along the line your DD may have heard others being told off for mistakes and she fears the same treatment. Strategies such as when writing saying 'oh I can't remember how to do this, can you help?' work well or asking her to look up a spelling, modelling using a dictionary etc.

[LelloLorry]

I have no advice for the rest, however this caught my attention, "She often complains of stomach ache and this always relates back to anxiety."

When is it that she complains of stomach ache?
Before school? Before tests? Before certain classes?
Please don't ignore this if she really does have a stomache ache, DD1 complained of everything under the sun every day before school for almost 2 years (y10 and 11), I actually thought she was just trying to wag it, until it got to worse and worse to the point where she cried and said she thought she was dying. If you can help her now, please don't wait for it to get worse.

[Decisions]

Thanks for all the helpful input so far.

The 'modelling' ideas are really useful and a good reminder to us to be careful of how we behave with our DD.

The stomach aches come and go. They used to occur regularly on a Friday (spelling test day), more recently they were connected to a particularly bad time our DD was having with a peer. However, we are monitoring it because it appears to be a real symptom rather than imagined or invented, although we are fairly sure that it stems from the anxiety.

Are there any mums out there whose DC experienced this at primary school age but are now older? If so, what happened? did they recieve help/grow out of it etc.?

Thanks

[Teacher401]

My brother experienced it throughout primary, due to anxiety over change. He would have terrible stomach aches on the first day of a new term or when his teacher was off etc. He is now in secondary school and perfectly fine.

[giveitago]

Interesting. My ds is the same.

He's in reception and having a horrid time. He's become sullen, nervous and unsociable. Communicates brilliantly with the adults but has lost all social skills with children. His teacher says they have to prompt him to participate. The only thing he likes are reading and PE. But won't give anything else a go and is hostile to anything he thinks he won't be perfect at straight off. He's so hard on himself and will cry at the drop of the hat thinking he's made a mistake (when he usually hasn't).

What I'm doing is to try and show him it's OK to mess up by mispelling things on his computer game and shrugging my shoulders etc. But nooo idea how to go about getting him to at least try new things.

[emptyshell]

Sometimes trying things out on scrap paper can help as well, if they're scared of getting something "wrong" on their "proper" work. I do this quite a lot with kids who aren't sure of spellings and the like - get them to have a go (with help) and then get them to take another look at it, at which point they usually say "that doesn't look right" and nail it correctly. That's for kids who I'm trying to get to stop dodging out of having a go with more advanced words and erring towards ones they're sure how to spell. I keep a little notebook around for them to do this in - and I also let kids see me scrawl a word on the side of the whiteboard to check it looks right/check it in a dictionary before giving them the answer to a spelling query. Same with things like number reversals.

Not saying you do this - but I used to be the same with tests and stuff at school, which I'm pretty sure was a combination of my natural personality, and my mother wanting to push me for the best - which got me to the stage where I'd see 9/10 as a failure, rather than 9 right. By the time she realized this and relaxed it a bit - the pattern was unfortunately set, to the extent that these days I'll still say I fucked up my A-levels because I got straight Bs and not straight As! (Also fucked up my degree and missed the first by one stinking mark... grrrr)

[Litchick]

giveitago - the best way to get kids to try new things is to lead by example.

Why not try something yourself that you've never done, never really fancied doing or are quite nervous about - way out of your comfort zone. Ice Skating? Learning to sing? Writing poetry? It doesn't matter...deliberately choose something you are unlikely to shine at.

The important thing for children to see is their parents or other important adults doing something new and difficult and not giving a hoot whether they are any good at it to begin with.

[bekkio]

What Litchick said . :)

Bek x

[giveitago]

Good idea - but can't think of anything - he sees me struggle but give anything a go. He's a very nervous type of kid.

Shall put my thinking cap on and come up with something.