How to navigate a different approach to the norm on Y6 kids and smartphones.

[lilmissiehopeful]

Hi all, I have not posted on MN in years so bear with me if I'm out of the groove or there's loads of stuff on this already that I need to find.

Wondering if there's any advice here (or links to expert resources) about how to go about trying to constructively set different
norms with fellow parents about the preteens smartphones?

It seems most of my daughter’s school friends are getting smartphones when they turned 11, inc WhatsApp and some have other apps like TikTok, YT, and Instagram, which to me is (personal opinion) ridiculously young. I’m truly terrified at the prospect, especially as I know from the Y6 parents WhatsApp discussions that there has been some not at all nice stuff going on between the kids who have phones, mainly on WhatsApp. To the point where the school has had to put out firm comms reminding parents to help keep their kids safe online, reminding on recommended minimum ages for apps etc. Yet it seems lots of the girls in my daughter's peer group are on many WhatsApp groups, some have TikTok (apparently private/family only, whatever that means), some have YT accounts etc.

I’ve no idea how to try to take a different approach, without some like-minded allies, so my daughter isn’t a Lone Ranger and ends up feeling ostracised, if that makes sense? Equally I don’t want to come across as the t*t on parents WhatsApp who says ‘is anyone else like me considering a very cautious approach re apps because I’m fing terrified at the risk of letting my daughter have the kind of access to WhatsApp and other stuff that lots of other kids have.’

Each to their own of course, but surely there must be a way of navigating taking a more cautious, simpler approach, whilst my daughter is still pretty young (a couple of months from turning 11)? I expect we'll get her a phone at least when she goes to secondary in September, but even then I'd prefer she didn't have apps. Surely I can't be alone in feeling this way?

*To clarify: as above I’m not envisaging that she doesn’t have a phone at all ever - she’ll need it for safety/contact purposes when she goes to secondary school in September as she’ll walk to/fro without a parent. More that we might say that WhatsApp and other apps aren’t happening til she’s a good bit older.

Look up the smartphonefree childhood campaign - gaining big momentum. Guarantee you won’t be alone thinking this.

How about a basic phone, or an Apple Watch? What are the alternatives? My kids are a bit younger but I’m doing my research now. My 13 year old niece is staying with us and is addicted to her phone, it’s utterly miserable to watch her - total zombie - her parents have lost all control and all sense of what is normal.

Thanks so much for replying. I'm aware of Smartphonefreechildhood and have signed up but so far I can't see that it's 'stuck' or had any impact on conversations amongst my local parents networks. I don't know people locally very well yet, as we've moved to the area from London not long ago, which probably doesn't help. If I knew people and the lay of the land on the Y6 parents WhatsApp groups a little better I might feel brave enough to mention the campaign. Really don't want to come across like I'm judging others who have already decided to give their kids a phone, whilst also having an inkling that some parents (including those whose kids already have a phone) may well have similar worries to mine and just knowing other parents might be open to a different approach to the current norm might be quite empowering. What a minefield!

I have no idea but I’d join you if mine were a similar age! (Luckily a lot younger currently).

Smartphonefreechildhood there are local WhatsApp groups you can join I think?

Mines a lot younger but I'm already thinking/worrying about this !

Could you speak to someone in the school to see if they could instigate a discussion about it with parents ??

My 12 year old daughter (Y7) has an iPhone but we have disabled the internet and she doesn’t have WhatsApp or any other social media at all. She has asked a couple of times but seems OK with our explanations that she’s not old enough yet. We are going to hold out as long as possible - it does seem that the tide is turning. You won’t be able to get all parents on side but the best thing that we did was agree with her little BFF gang that we would all have the same approach (luckily I’m friends with all the mums).

You can set things up so you have to agree to app downloads.
You can put rules in place re checking her phone, and then actually check.
You can put rules in place re what contacts she can add, communication in groups, coming to you with issues.
Def rules re when not to use, off by eg 8pm etc etc.

Much easier to relax rules than impose them later.

My dd is y6. She does have a phone but at the moment it is very strictly controlled. She has our numbers and a couple of family members so that she can call or text us. She cannot receive calls or texts from anyone else. At home she can play a few games on the WiFi or use it for music but cannot add any new apps and doesn't have WhatsAppor Tik Tok etc. We did the same with my ds when he was that age but allowed him to add friends numbers when he got to secondary school. We told our kids we are happy for you to blame us for your lack of access to these apps. It's a fine line deciding what to allow and when but the older one still doesn't have most of those apps and hasn't yet twigged that he is now old enough legally for some of them I think....can't tell if he's just lost interest or not.

I think the way you say it makes a difference and you don’t sound like you would be at all patronising or holier than thou. Mine is only y2 but I have much older kids who got old phones for secondary. They weren’t in the huge WhatsApp group stage yet (small groups were on) and TikTok hadn’t really taken off but they still caused difficulty - for my dd anyway. She’s on hers a lot for down time just watching videos.
I won’t be letting me little one get one but I know I’m lucky in that by then it will have more restrictions. Be brave!

I think it might be easier approaching people you think would be receptive to it more individually?

Fwiw, my ds is 11 and all their friendships, arranging meet ups etc, is all done on WhatsApp. They chat on videos calls most evenings, normally while gaming but also cooking the same things together randomly!

My DS would definitely feel isolated/not part of the friendship group without it.

I keep a close eye on what's going on, and thankfully it's all pretty inane messages.

Mine are older now (and on their phones all the time 🙄) but when they were 10-11 yrs they had basic phones with no internet enabled. They could watch you tube etc at home, we were pretty relaxed about screen time out of school. Age 12 DS1 started having a social life and he needed what’s app to be in touch with his friends. It was often girls who would organise the ‘whole class’ communications, they seemed to favour Insta so he got that age 13 or so.
Also - pandemic and lockdowns happened and their entire socialising moved online 🙄. That blew a lot of the rules out of the water tbh.

I would simply share a link and say for anyone who is curious about alternatives to smartphones for when the cohort go off to secondary… you’re putting it out there as a resource, not judging anyone!

Your Year 6 is a digital native, born with a phone in her hand, she has grown up knowing life without the internet, she will be able to do her homework on Chat GPT. She is also more hugely influenced by her peers and she can learn how to do most things without a teacher (i.e. a You Tube or TT video). It feels foreign to us Gen X and millenial parents but with this also comes some huge pluses....

My advice would be to acknowledge that her experience is very different and foreign to your own. And to be curious about it. Sign up to Tiktok, Snapchat etc and see what it is about. Understand her space and then make an informed decision. There is no right answer as we all navigate this alien land for us boomers.

With regards to the other parents - again be curious. Are they so relaxed because they know how the Tiktok algorithm works? (its actually v safe!) and think there is something to be gained from this? Or are they travelling in a pack? Or are they so busy working that they dont have time to think about what their pre-teens are up to.

After you have been curious - trust your gut! You will make the right decision for your family.

I’ve heard of the smartphone free childhood campaign and it seems to be gaining momentum here. We have agreed as a small group of parents to delay the introduction of mobile phones, so that they don’t feel like the odd ones out. I will probably allow What’s App via a laptop which he’ll need for homework, so that he’s not left out of the trips to the park etc
It can easily be done. And limits can be put on phones very easily when they do get them. My 14yr old gets 1hr on social media apps before they all switch off for the day, and she needs my digital approval for any apps downloaded etc.

Please can you explain more about the TikTok algorithm being very safe? I do like your advice to sign up to the different social media platforms before your children get them as I think so many are naive about these. However I have signed up to Tiktok recently and some of the videos that pop up for me are very strange!

It’s designed to hook you in just like television for us Gen Xers. It’s more echo chamber because it is better at targeting sub groups. How about just sign up to it and see?

I don’t understand why the OP wants her child to have no access to apps. That’s how secondary kids communicate with friends. It’s like phone calls and text messages of the past generations. There are good and bad friends. And Gen X uses ChatGPT for work too. We aren’t old enough to be retired yet. My work ia actively trialing generative AI and DH is using it as part of their workflow. We are left 40 and 50. Don’t get left behind. Social media and AI isn’t a Gen Alpha thing.

Thanks all for all the comments and experiences. Much food for thought and really appreciate the insights. Lots to think about. Definitely won't be rushing into anything or doing what the majority are doing until we've reflected and worked out an approach that feels best for our daughter.

Hey there, I am no expert, but the algorithm on the For You page will feed you what you engage on, dont scroll past. So if you look at funny cat videos it will only give you those or maybe related ones like dogs or monkeys. It is constantly asking you to personalise its suggestions. Do you want more or less of videos like X.

This is pretty corporate kind of speak but here: Safety Center | TikTok
Hope that helps :)

It’s not just an algorithm and videos. Although they’re not all kittens and puppies either. They drop in click bait which children will be drawn into being strange, inflammatory, funny, disgusting or sexual content and then kids go down a rabbit hole. It’s mainly through messaging groups and sharing disturbing videos. They can start with an external contact. Predators engage with children through games and then blackmail them for pictures.
children don’t have the restraint or understanding to deal appropriately with these. Saying that most adults don’t either, hence the burying head in the sand with their kids online.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/children-targeted-with-graphic-content-hours-after-joining-social-media-report-says-12359464

You could bring it up with other parents by mentioning Jonathan Haidt’s book the Anxious Generation and ask if anyone else would be willing to consider a different approach to smartphones.

I get where you are coming from - I really wish more parents were like you and there were better discussions around kids and smartphones but until more parents get onboard with the issues, it's unlikely to change. (and the PP who is asking why the OP doesn't want her child to use certain apps, is a good example of why it can be such an uphill battle for parents who want to protect their children online when there is so much peer pressure from other parents and kids).

I have a DS12 - and while I can't say we have done anything significantly different, we do have some boundaries that I know many of his friends do not. We only allow whatsapp (but this is unfortunately necessary because it's how they all contact each other). We don't allow snapchat, and we've said no to all other social media apps except youtube (and I'm not planning on relenting on this until he is 15/16). He is not allowed his phone in his room at night. We do check messages (not as frequently as we used to but he still knows it could happen at any time), and we have a timer that restricts access to certain apps after a certain time eg 8pm. Plus we approve which apps he can download, or not.

I also have a DD in year 5 - and I won't be buying her a phone for her 11th birthday. We will get her a phone before she starts secondary - but it won't be a special 'present', more like a necessary communication tool. I have way more worries about my DD being let loose with a phone though, especially around apps like Whatsapp. So will have to navigate that one somehow. A lot of her friends in year 5 already have phones.

Op

you might find you are part of a ‘backlash’ generation of parents in this respect. I was speaking to a younger colleague at work today, her kids are 9 and she is adamant that they aren’t getting smartphones until they are at least 13/14. She’s aware of all the dangers of giving kids access to social media / addictive algorithms when they are young. My kids are 16/17 now, so they didn’t get phones uni they were 13 simply because they didn’t exist. And they weren’t quite the generation where small babies and toddlers were being given iPads to play with. But parents know so much more about the dangers, I wouldn’t be surprised if they become more strict as a result.

My children are 12 and 10. My son (12) got a phone after the summer half term of year 6 so he could swap numbers with children who were moving on somewhere else. He doesn’t have WhatsApp (the age limit is 13) and neither child is allowed any devices in their bedrooms at any time.

I’ve heard people say that children need a phone if they are going to or from school on their own. I’ve found the opposite - my son learned how to do the journey without the distraction of a phone.

We won’t allow Snapchat or TikTok. Snapchat because we know a boy who was very badly bullied by a group on it - I understand that the disappearing messages make Snapchat a bully’s dream. The mum ended up going to the police so they could record the messages before they disappeared.

Tiktok because it is owned by the Chinese government and my children consume enough crap. They don’t need to get plugged into the algorithms.

The tide is definitely turning on this. My DD and her friends (all year 7) contact each other via landline! Some have smartphones but none are allowed social media or even WhatsApp, so they’ve all gone old school. It’s absolutely fine and I’ve no idea why parents are buying all this dangerous tech when their kids could just ring each other like we did in the old days.

My nearly 18 year old has Instagram and WhatsApp. My 16 year old has discord and my 13 year old uses the message thing on roblox. 16 year old and 13 year old know that I check their conversation from time to time. I don't with my eldest but he shows me stuff anyway.

My dc rarely use their phones, they prefer to use the pc and dc1 uses his tablet. My 13 year old's phone is a smart phone but it isn't connected to the internet.

I have 2 younger children aged nearly 11 and nearly 10 and they won't be getting a phone until they are old enough to go out on their own (they both have SEN before anybody comments).