DS10....Am cracking up!

[highhopes2010]

I know most people go through it with their children but he is absolutely cracking me up.He is brilliant at school-butter wouldn't melt.He never gets in trouble,in fact he would be mortified at getting in trouble there.His back chat and arguing that black is white at home with us has made me think it must be the way we've brought him up-although someone once told me if he's good everywhere else then you've done a good job and not to worry.I have tried everything.punishing him-earlier then usual bedtime,taken his ipod,ds,laptop,t.v. everything off him.Made him earn it all back.Sat and talked to him.EVERYTHING.I just feel like we're forever punishing him and it makes me sad,I don't want to be like that with him.He is in bed at 8pm normally and we let him read till 8.30pm so it's not like he isnt getting enough sleep.We only let him on ps3 for 2 hours(he's not really bothered with it the last couple of weeks anyway)at a time-that goes for laptops and handheld games.I just dont know what else to try or is it a case of carrying on how we are with him and once he knows we're not backing down he'll gain some respect for us?He isnt always moody with us,we can have laughs and talk normally,but it is majority amount of time.He hasnt started puberty,could it be his hormones starting up do you think?

[yumsy]

I have just read this thread as I am worried about my 9yo DS. I think all your advice will help but just wondered how you are doing now?

[Asinine]

There is a 'how to talk book' for teens, it's as good as the other ones. I read it and gave it to dd11 at the time to read. It has good examples of how to deal with problems with developing independence and agreeing acceptable behaviour.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Eugh - autocorrect fail - parenting not patenting!

[NotaDisneyMum]

Ok - I'm very new to pre-teen patenting (how come they change overnight?)

I (reluctantly) accept that I should start negotiating with her and picking my battles - but what about disrespect? The OP said her DS muttered 'bog off' under his breath -when asked to do something - I am not equipped to deal with that at the moment - my parenting style would be to penalise harshly for such cheek!

Also - I'm conflicted giving her more freedom (playing out, going to the shop alone etc) when she shows so little responsibility in relation to other things - she has the brain of a goldfish and forgets to do even the most basic of tasks! If she can't remember what I asked her to do 10 mins ago, how is she going to remember what time I told her to be home? Especially as she's distracted by her friends etc.

Help!

[Kestryn]

This sounds so familiar... DD is 10 and again, it's not so much what she says as how she says it. She has this tone that sounds as if she thinks the person she's talking to (usually me / DP) is a complete idiot.

[highhopes2010]

Good luck tulpe,hope it goes well for you..

[tulpe]

I think everyone on this thread has perhaps just saved my sanity!

I just came on to this board for the first time to ask this exact question: My situation is exactly the same as the OP with a lovely DS who is very well behaved and well thought of in school but who is a stroppy little sod at home.

I'm going to print this off and share with DH as I think half the battle is making sure we have the same approach.

Thanks again!

[highhopes2010]

Too much info me thinks!But think that would be a good thread to start-What jobs do you imagine/want your child to have?.

[highhopes2010]

A law career-didnt think of that one.I always think of my ds running his own company(dont know what?),and when I picture it he's always been in a suit,at the top of a long table in a skyscraper with the city(somewhere in the U.S.) as the back drop,he says something(cant hear what?)then everyone at this huge table claps him!must stop watching so many films!.

[highhopes2010]

wow meditrina,I did that bit about how to "improve ourselves" and all has been working well so far.And you're right about the "its not what you say its how you say it" that is the bit that miffs me,but keep reminding myself (as already said)about the hormones might be kicking in.And that's a good point about the negativity,but I think we may have made him more negative about things because of our negativity towards him(a lot of negatives there sorry).As I said before,we practically jumped down his throat for everything the last few months and were stuck in a rut.I am on the right track now but dh needs to calm down with him still.He just gets "the look" though if he's over reacting,then he gets "the talk" when ds goes to bed..

[highhopes2010]

I keep reminding myself about the hormones quirrelquarrel thanks.I was a complete nightmare when mine kicked in for puberty so I am actually dreading that bit.Jesus,hope he is nothing like I was then.for self!

[meditrina]

I've got one of these!

The way he talks at the moment can be exasperating (though I do sometimes wonder/hope about a glittering career in the law, given his way of arguing and use of detail!)

It's not what he says, it's the way he says it. I'm having a crackdown at the moment about moaning/complaining - as I began to wonder if he'd actually realised he was giving out a barrage of negativity. So I'm asking him, as a counterbalance to find a good/happy/positive thing to say as well. And also asking him to think about, having spelt out the problem, what he'd like the solution to be and what would make everyone happiest. I'm also telling him that it's not what he says - how he says it is part of the message. Being right is not enough; he needs to think about being persuasive, and making his point without flatly contradicting his interlocutor (even simple things, like starting his sentence "yes, and..." rather than "no, because ...")

Now all that is a lot to ask of a 10 year old, but it is helping in terms of self awareness and learning to consider his impact on others. And at least it has introduced some variety to our exchanges.

[quirrelquarrel]

Do remember that hormones aren't just a myth- they really do take over your mind and make you feel unreasonably strongly about silly things (like being asked to do chores which would take a minute to do).

[highhopes2010]

Well I have stuck to the conversation I had with ds and everything going great CeliaFate.Yes he does still moan and is still a bit cheeky but we're a lot happier.I felt like we were forever telling him off(probably were).It was awful for us so I can't imagine what it was like for him?I am definately more laid back with him though and he's noticed and appreciated it.This thread has helped out so much and I'm so grateful to all the opinions from you all.Thank you all(again)..

[CeliaFate]

I could have written your post word for word highhopes, except mine's a dd.
I realised her stroppy behaviour and lack of co-operation were due to me and dh being overly strict. I pulled back, gave her some slack and she really appreciated it.
Dd will do anything BUT what you've asked her to do lately eg if I say "time to clean your teeth" she will "remember" something urgent that she has to find/do and then runs off. I find deep breathing and plenty of wine helps!

[highhopes2010]

I think it got to the point with ds that he thought we were doing it for the sake of it tbh.We have always explained why we set rules for things in place.And as with Somekindof we have listened to his pov.But for eg he will sometimes make daft noises like beeping sounds but at the top of his voice then we ask him to stop or go and do it elsewhere(bedroom/outside)and he will always do it once more after we ask him not to.That is just one thing,that will go for anything we ask him to stop doing,eg winding the dog up in the living room and lots of other things.But for an honest opinion do you Sarkylady or anyone else have this or even been through it?It does'nt sound like much but I could give a list if anyone wanted?Then maybe we could all compare?

[SarkyLady]

Also make sure that he understands why you don't want him to do particular things. For example, does he realise that you find the talking back hurtful and that it upsets you? Or does he think you're enforcing rules for the sake of it?

[highhopes2010]

Thanks Somekindof and Fluffles.I know this is not the end of my ds "opinions" but I was a bit lost and think we did get to the point of jumping down his throat for the tiniest thing he said against us(feeling so guilty now)because it was all building up.Am determined to be back on track as a good listener for him and am going to ignore the daft stuff.But as tooposh said if he does something seriously wrong(which he almost never has-oh god what happened to me?)then we will sort it out when (if)it comes to it.

[fluffles]

well done OP

personally i don't like the phrase 'back chat' at all - maybe in school, but not at home, to me it implies that children should listen and obey and not 'talk back' but why not? they're not little soldiers, they're people, why shouldn't they talk back?
i KNOW how hard it is when stuff needs done and there's somewhere to be, but just taking a moment to get them onside with what needs done rather than issuing orders can pay dividends.

also, you're the adult, you need to just smile to yourself in some of these arguements and 'agree to disagree' even if you know you're right--

[SomekindofSpanish]

highhopes2010, thnks for starting this thread.

Your ds sounds exactly like my DS1 and Janni's idea sounds like a great way to try and handle the situation.

Like you, DH and me have removed privileges, 'grounded' him from playing out with his friends, etc ( which seems to work, but then back to the same old a few days later).

We do listen to his point of view and take on baord a lot of what he says, but not when he is being deliberatley(sp?) defiant (or is it our perception?)

I have begun to cut him more slack (now just have tomwork on DH) as I do belive that it is hormone related, trying to find own place in the world, etc.

Good luck and I really sympathise with the whole 'stuck in a rut' thing

[highhopes2010]

Thanks tooposh,a little advice goes a long way sometimes,and your advice has helped lots.Think you must be a great mum too.

[tooposh]

That all sounds great! He has not walked all over you - you have compromised and the final position is still an 8.45/ 9pm bedtime and helping with chores. You are a lovely mum and I hope you are all happier. He is a lucky lad.

One last point - don't expect this to be quite the end of all back chat/ teenagery behaviour for the next 10 years, but you have cleared the first hurdle.

[highhopes2010]

thanks Janni,your comments taken onboard.I think i got stuck in a rut somewhere.He is a lovely lad,we definately need to cut him some slack.

[Janni]

I have one this age. They're developing a sense of who they are, where they fit in the world, what their opinions are. What you see as back chat they see as putting their point of view. Perhaps you could try an experiment where you say things like 'that's an interesting point of view' and you try not to have the final word all the time. I find if it's something I really need them to do that giving them a choice between now or in ten minutes is a good compromise. Also, if I'm interested in their opinion and why they feel a certain way they often do the thing I've asked without any problem. This is a good age for you to start thinking about having a teenager. I have one of those too and he is far less argumentative at 14 than he was at 10.

[highhopes2010]

Thanks tooposh and everyone else.I thought about what you've all said and taken it onboard.I had a talk with ds before and asked him what he thought we could "all do"to improve ourselves and the situations we get in.He didn't understand at first(think he was taken aback)so I said ok you hate your turn at doing the pots so what can we do about it as you have to do something in the house(it is the only thing he does).And he said can we make a rota of chores for me so I don't only have to do them.Ok I said that's fine we'll sit down and do that tomorrow(perfect).But this rota will be what you have made so you can't moan about it afterwards.(he won't have lots to do before anyone starts to flame me,just a couple of things)Next thing he said was can I have a reward chart-I said you're a bit too old for that now but you can have £2.50 a week which will go up to £5.00pw when you go to high school.Brilliant he said.What next I said,he said all my friends go to bed at 9pm-9.30pm can I?I said but you struggle to get up in the mornings so do you think thats a good idea?He said well sometimes when you go to bed early you still dont want to get up in the morning.Fair comment(have felt like that myself).So how about we meet halfway and you go to bed at 8.30pm,read till 8.45pm and asleep by 9pm and we'll see how that goes?He was absolutely loving it(hope I've not just been walked all over?).Also said ok now lets start fresh tomorrow and see how everything goes.He is happy as Larry,so I guess we'll have to see how it goes and I will be cutting him some slack on his notright-- opinions.thanks again everyone,feel lot happier now.