So upset with how this nursery handled things

[Nurserymum34]

Long time poster here, name changed. Sorry in advance for the length that this will be.

My daughter who is 3 has been attending the nursery of a prep school for the last year. This school has two prep schools and a senior school.

I will call them nursery 1 and nursery 2. She has been at nursery 1 since September 2022. She has done brilliantly there, and we love the staff. BUT they have very little outdoor provision and my daughter is a very outdoorsy child. Since the beginning of September, quite a few of the girls that she was friends with left and a lot of 2 year olds joined, which has meant that the preschool year now only has one small room to play/ work in because the other room is often used for sleepers. My daughter was suddenly saying that she doesn’t enjoy nursery much any more because they hardly ever go outside and it’s ‘very boring’.

So we decided to look at the nursery at the ‘sister’ prep school to see if they had better facilities and they have 3 Forrest schools and a lot of space so we thought that this would suit her better.

We took our daughter for a tour of the school / nursery which lasted over 2 hours. The staff seemed very taken with our daughter. She joined in some of the activities and the admissions officer said that as far as they were concerned, she would be welcome to join. We got a letter saying that she’d be a great addition to the nursery etc. They asked us to bring her in the next week to complete paperwork and agree what sessions she was going to do. We were there for quite some time and our daughter was chatting with staff and playing with the other children. The manager of nursery 2 said that she had received all dd’s paperwork from nursery 1 and had spoken at length with the nursery manager there and that they had a good idea of what she was like etc.

We then agreed for her to do a taster morning at nursery 2. This was on the Monday before half term. It seemed to go fine. It was only 2 hours and when I picked my daughter up, the staff said that she’d been fine and had enjoyed forest school. The children were asking her when she was coming back.

The following Friday, dd was doing what we all thought was her last day at nursery 1. Nursery 1 told us that they were sad that we had decided to move her but they understood our reasons which were only due to a lack of outdoor space. The nursery staff said goodbye to dd and talked with her about the fact that she was moving.

The same day, DD’s dad (not me) got an email which he unfortunately did not see. There was no phone call, no offer of a follow up, nothing. The email said

Dear Mr X,

 Thank you for your patience whilst we get back to you. Having spoken with our nursery staff after the profile visit we are unable to offer A a place at this time. We feel that a change in setting would not be in A’s best interests due to the disruption this would cause, compared to the familiarity she has with the Nursery 1 setting and staff at Nursery 1.

Best wishes,
Mr Y

This email was sent at 6.30pm on the Friday before half term. The taster day had been on Monday. At the very least, I would have expected a phone call from the nursery manager at nursery 2 if they felt the taster session had not gone well. As it was, the staff at nursery 2 said to me ‘see you after half term’. We had spent a lot of our time on the process, and to get an email like that with no offer of a follow up. There was also no communication from nursery 1 to say that they had decided that dd should stay there.

Unfortunately, the above resulted in me turning up with dd at nursery 2, yesterday with both of us expecting her to start only to be greeted with a frosty reception and feelings of confusion. The nursery manager opened the door to me and said ‘oh, didn’t you get the email?’ I said no. She said I would need to speak to the head and took dd and me to reception. The head of the school arrived at the reception with a face like thunder, did not even look at us and then disappeared into his staff room. Unfortunately, my daughter had even remembered his name and try to say hello to him.

I was sat there for about 10 minutes wondering what the hell was going on. Finally, the head appeared, asked me into his room and asked the staff in the reception to look after dd. The first thing he did was to show me the email on his iPad. I was really confused and shocked tbh. I said that this was all very confusing and I asked why nobody else had contacted me.

He then said that the taster morning had not gone well because dd hadn’t settled and had been a bit anxious. He made it sound like my child had tried to set the place on fire. He wasn’t really able to say anything specific except that ‘the foundation has decided that dd needs to stay at nursery 1’

But here’s the thing, he then said that ‘apparently there are some suggestions that dd may be on the autism spectrum or have additional needs’. Dd doesn’t have a diagnosis and at the moment, she has not needed an IPP or anything. He was the first person to actually say this. The nursery manager 1 had mentioned to me a few quirks, such as dd using very formal speech and very long words for her age. She also sometimes does not like changing her clothes. But she will do it with encouragement. I asked if she should be assessed and nursery manager 1 said ‘no because she’s above expectation developmentally for her age and isn’t behind in any areas’. She basically said that nobody would assess her at this age and we would have to wait until she’s older to see how she pans out. The thing about all this is that nursery manager 2 would have known everything at the meeting we had with her. If this was an issue why sit for an hour and let us waste time booking sessions?

Dd’s dad phoned both schools yesterday to try to find out what on earth has gone on. Nursery 1 manager said that as far as they were concerned, dd was starting at nursery 2 yesterday. She was shocked at how this had been handled but she then said ‘to be honest we didn’t want her to leave.’ And she said they would like to have her back and have a place for her. The head at the other school said that he couldn’t understand why we were moving dd and it wasn’t in her best interests.

I was so upset yesterday, mainly about how we were treated. And also that my daughter was upset because she couldn’t understand what was happening. We had been considering the school for dd from
reception but probably not anymore, if this is how the head treats people.

I now have to decide what to do though? Do I send dd back to nursery 1 or look for a completely different one?

[Nurserymum34]

I just would like to know what you would now do if you were me?

[HauntedGusset]

Find a decent state school and get my child into the nursery there. That's what I'd do.

[Nurserymum34]

Most of our state schools don’t have nurseries attached, unfortunately. And the one that does is full.

I have 4 children who’ve been at many different private and state schools over the years and have never been subjected to such a shit show. It’s bizarre.

[Bootoagoose123]

I'd say this doesn't bode well if it does turn out that she needs additional support, or even a setting more understanding of her quirks, later on. I've worked in prep schools where neurodiverse children have been "managed out" and this sounds like a similar thing. If you're thinking about other schools so no longer need the consistency, I'd find a totally new setting for her.

[Boating123]

Look around for other nurseries which you think will suite her better (more outdoorsy), but if you don't find one just go back to nursery 1.
Maybe she is bored there, but at least she's welcome there and it's familiar.

[Boating123]

The nursery doesn't need to be attached to a school.

[JeezWhatNext]

Ask them to put in writing that they won’t allow her to move nursery settings because they suspect she has autism. If they won’t ask them why they said that was the reason I’m the meeting. Do this by email so it is timed and dated.

Write down EXACTLY the chain of events including names of members of staff and dates of all contact about the move for your records.

Use the emails as evidence that dd needs an assessment and ask to be referred by her GP and also apply for an assessment of needs from the LA.

Find a really nice quiet state school.

[Nurserymum34]

I completely agree. I did ask the head if they have any autistic children there and he said ‘yes we have a few with quite significant needs further up the school but I assume they started before I….I mean when they were little’ he’s quite a new head and has only been there for 10 months.

[Ohdearwhatnow4]

What other provisions are their locally for you dd.i would also speak to the governors and put in a formal complaint as to how your whole family have been treated. If they believe your little dd maybe unique surely they should of handle this situation better.

[Nurserymum34]

Well I am firmly of the opinion that if a diagnosis fits then it should be given. In all likelihood though, we are going to have to pay or wait years for that.

Also if a child is coping fine without an IPP, is that really the time to ask for an assessment?

[Nurserymum34]

There are a lot of lovely nurseries, some with outstanding ofsteds around here but I mistakenly thought that it would be easier moving her to a school within the same foundation. How silly of me 🙈

[Londforb]

@Nurserymum34

Thats terrible! To start with, how a child reacts on a taster day is not necessarily an indicator of how they will progress : they need time to settle in.
The confusion this has caused for your poor DD!
I’d look at the schools inclusion policy, and their complaints policy - or ask for copies.
The child’s best interests should be at the heart of all they do - and the miscommunication has been appalling.
You had perfectly valid reasons for the request to change : the outdoor space.
Also - if there had been any indication that your DD needed additional support : that should have been communicated to you clearly by now NOT when you are about to change nursery, and then used as a reason to not give a place!

[JeezWhatNext]

It’s clear evidence that she needs assessment, so it will get you on the list for assessment. If it seems a ludicrous suggestion that she has any needs when she gets to the top of the list you just say you don’t need it anymore. It also has the bonus of you being able to discuss it with professionals without dd taking much on board so it leaves all your options open.
Honestly you don’t want her anywhere where they think about disability like that. It doesn’t matter if she’s neurotypical or not those attitudes sink in and it’s your job to protect her from becoming ableist, or indeed sexist or racist. I’d say you’ve dodged a bullet.

[JeezWhatNext]

As far as the next nursery goes one of mine has asd and if you can find one and afford it I’d choose a Montessori nursery.

[Londforb]

@Nurserymum34

I’d also question what the previous teacher said about no assessments yet/too young. If they had concerns that amounted to declining a place at the other nursery : then yes, things should be put in place already! My DS (4) has been on a waiting list for a year now for as ASD assessment, and was told in the summer that it’s likely to be another year wait.
Early intervention is key.
I think you might need to instigate any action yourself here for your DD - rather than rely on the school.

[Nurserymum34]

I would love for her to go to a Montessori nursery. Unfortunately, our nearest one is about 40 miles away.

[Nurserymum34]

@JeezWhatNext yes I completely agree with you. It’s much better we know what they are like now rather than her being there for 2 months and then finding out it’s ableist.

[Readingineading]

After that shitshow I wouldn't want tp place my child there, they sound massively inept.

[Ivyy]

@JeezWhatNext

Ask them to put in writing that they won’t allow her to move nursery settings because they suspect she has autism. If they won’t ask them why they said that was the reason I’m the meeting. Do this by email so it is timed and dated.

Write down EXACTLY the chain of events including names of members of staff and dates of all contact about the move for your records.

Use the emails as evidence that dd needs an assessment and ask to be referred by her GP and also apply for an assessment of needs from the LA.

Find a really nice quiet state school.

This! Make a formal complaint op, you've been treated terribly and the head sounds awful. It's like discrimination, I mean really what on earth could have happened during a 2 hour taster session?! If your dd had spent the time there in meltdown and distressed then I'd understand more, but the staff told you she was fine! It's the head that seems to have the problem, is he trying to manage out any ND or potentially ND children? Discrimination if he is. and an official complaint. No way I'd send my child to that nursery or school now.

Maybe take dd back to nursery 1 for now, and start looking for a new nursery with more outdoor facilities and space. With regards to an autism diagnosis, it's not usually possible when they're so young, unless there's more obvious things like with speech and learning, being non verbal etc. My friend works in a nursery and has spoken about this. My own dd had an assessment for autism and adhd when she was 5 and in year 1, we paid privately because of waiting times and my dh had been left some money in his gran's will. It was a lengthy and incredibly thorough assignment, but we came away still not knowing as she was so young. They said it was borderline and to adopt a watch and wait approach until dd was a few years older. They offered us support sessions but at that stage we didn't take anything further.
Fast forward 4 years and with those few years difference dd was diagnosed with autism at 9, it was clear then with age appropriate differences and very clear traits, though dd was very good at masking at school. Adhd we were told was still borderline and that it could be more obvious as she matured and got to secondary school age. She's 13 now and we see much less hyperactivity and impulsive behaviour, which used to be the main traits, but conversely the attention deficit, struggles with focus and organisation

[Primproperpenny]

What a mess! They wouldn’t be getting any more of my money, that’s for sure! How incredibly rude. Withdraw her immediately and let everyone know exactly why. Make sure other parents know what’s going on.

[whatsappdoc]

Was there previous correspondence that you maybe didn't see? 'Thank you for your patience' doesn't sound like a stand alone email. Regardless, look around at other nurseries, you know you can always fall back on nursery 1 unless of course you think they were in cahoots with nursery 2.

[Nurserymum34]

@whatsappdoc

Was there previous correspondence that you maybe didn't see? 'Thank you for your patience' doesn't sound like a stand alone email. Regardless, look around at other nurseries, you know you can always fall back on nursery 1 unless of course you think they were in cahoots with nursery 2.

No, literally nothing else. The last communication was when I picked dd up from the taster morning and the staff said they would see us after half term.

Dd had already been offered the place before he sent this.

[Londforb]

@Nurserymum34

Could it be that they are trying to discourage parents from moving between schools? Are numbers low in the nursery you started at - compared to the nursery you attempted to move to? Have there been a number of other parents doing the same thing?

[Nurserymum34]

@Londforb

@Nurserymum34

Could it be that they are trying to discourage parents from moving between schools? Are numbers low in the nursery you started at - compared to the nursery you attempted to move to? Have there been a number of other parents doing the same thing?

Yes, nursery 1 doesn't have many children left in the preschool year after several of them left but they didn't go to nursery 2 - they went elsewhere.

Apparently, the head of the school we are moving from did ask the manager why we were leaving and wasn't happy about it.

[JeezWhatNext]

Well if they’ve suggested your hold has a neurological disability to try and stop her transferring between the two nurseries that’s even worse isn’t it?

please get it all in writing.