Is it really so bad to eat Pate ?

[FoghornLeghorn]

I have a slab of Pate in my fridge and it is just calling me - Is it really so bad ?

TBH, I haven't really gone for all of this 'don't eat this don't eat that' nonsense through my other pregnancies, I've avoided the things that are harmful to the baby not things that carry a risk of me getting ill which then has a knock on effect to the baby

[deaconblue]

I wouldn't take the risk. How can your desire for pate outweigh your desire to have a healthy baby. Don't get it, it's only 9 months of your life, you can scoff as much as you like afterwards.

[howtheBOOKTHIEFstolechristmas]

nettiehay - I would say that a better analogy for your dp to nettle you with would be crossing a quiet, rural road (I don't think the listeria risk quite equates to the M25), carefully looking both ways, to have a look at an interesting object on the other side. Now, you may get knocked down and killed by a maniac boy-racer careering round the corner. Unlikely but a small risk. Obviously you could just not cross the road.

You weigh up the pros and cons because you're a competent adult. You live with any consequencies because you're a competent adult.

[coldtits]

In that case, how can your desire to cross a road outweigh your desire to have a healthy baby? How can your desire to go to work outweigh your desire to make sure you are fully rested in order to have a healthy baby? How can your desire to eat white bread not brown outweigh your desire to have a healthy baby? How can your desire to be vegan outweigh your desire to have a healthy baby? How can your desire to drive a car outweigh your desire to have a healthy baby?

Let's not get the guilt horsewhip out, hey, because every single pregnant woman alive will make a choice during her pregnancy that might put her baby at risk.

[catsypug]

I agree it's all about common sense - remember in the olden days when our mothers were pregnant liver and pate were not banned and neither was alcohol or smoking particularly - certainly not like it is now.

I love my mum's chicken liver pate and will def have a couple of slices of toast with some at Xmas - I'll also have a couple of glasses of wine and prawn cocktail.

Think prawns are 'allowed' after the 1st trimester but I ate them at the start of pregnancy because I craved prawn cocktail jacket potatoes.

I did all of this in my first pregnancy and my DD is absolutely fine and healthy

[Bouncingturtlewithtinsel]

It is about the retinol content, rather than the listeria content.
100g of liver pate contains approximately 7330ug of retinol.
Very high intakes (greater than 3300ug per day) has been linked to foetal abnormalities. Hence, things like carrots, eggs are fine because you would have to consume quite a lot to exceed the threshhold amount, but it wouldn't take much pate. Still, I can't a thin spread on some toast being more than a couple of grams! So you could probably eat some but very much in moderation.
Personally I'm avoiding it completely because I love the stuff and would scoff a whole slab . But as long as you bear the above in mind and be sensible, no reason why you couldn't have a taste!

[Bouncingturtlewithtinsel]

Sorry that should have been "I can't see that".
Doh!

[deaconblue]

I don't get the road analogy since crossing roads, going to work etc are necessary in normal life. Eating pate is not necessary, ditto smoking, drinking alcohol etc. I don't see how providing pregnant women with information about how certain choices could potentially harm their baby is part of a huge evil conspiracy to make women feel guilty. If you choose to go against advice, then of course that is your choice and it would also be your choice to feel guilty or not.

[thebecster]

dooley, you've probably gone but re:Christmas without pate 'what's that about'... I think every family has different Xmas traditions. My parents always used to be self-sufficient (although now they're older there's a few trips to Waitrose ). So we had chicken liver pate (from our own chickens) in the morning on toast, and then a mixture of birds at lunch - partridge, pheasant, chicken, whatever Dad had shot/butchered. I didn't have turkey at Xmas until recently, and I must admit, I'm not a fan. Just isn't the same as the food from my childhood... And my mum's chicken liver pate at Christmas is the food of my childhood. Whereas turkey isn't. It's just a tradition thing.

[nosnikrap]

I WILL NEVER STOP EATING RUNNY EGGS, WHAT IS THE POINT OF EATING EGGS IF THEY ARE HARD YUCKY YUCK. RUNNY YOLKS ARE TASTY AND NUTRITIOUS, NOT EATING THEM IS BAD FOR YOU!!! GRRRRRRRRRR MY MUM ATE THEM WHEN PREGNANT AND HER MOTHER, SO SO WILL I, I LOVE THEM WITH SPREADABLE ANCHOR ON TOAST. YUM YUM YUM

I have an egg problem

[MassiveMollyfloss]

DON'T EAT THE PATE!!! Sorry i couldn't resist Seriously though, why even bother if it involves this much debate. I love paté, goats cheese, wine and a whole bunch of other things I shouldn't have while pregnant so I just don't have them. The risk is tiny but then it's a risk you don't have to take (like crossing the road) so why bother. Also, once you start having things you're not supposed to you can get on a bit of a slippery slope and have more stuff you're not supposed to... For me it's a no-brainer, just don't take any risks you don't have to and you won't have to worry. You'll also enjoy them all the more after your pregnancy!

[melinda]

It's both a listeria issue (stillbirth, premature labour but very unlikely) and retinol issue (maybe birth defects in first three months). But you can get round the listeria issue 100% by eating tinned pate, which is sterile. And eating in moderation and after the first three months which takes out the retinol problem.

[tyaca]

food during preg is such a heated issue on MN. when i first joined six months ago, i got really upset in a listeria thread

my mum reckons she was TOLD to eat loads of liver during prg for the iron. i love liver and at our fancy work xmas dinner in mayfair last week i had an enormous plate for starters... hmmmm.....

there seem to be a billion ways you can be a bad mum before you even have a baby.

[peanutbutterkid]

I sometimes take the "unnecessary risks" in pregnancy sometimes, like drinking bits of alcohol or eating brie if I feel like it, because I JOLLY WELL AM NOT just an incubator, and attempting to live like one would seriously undermine my mental health.
Not saying what other people should choose, but don't like the hint of being labeled bad mum for taking tiny but judged by others as "unnecessary" risks.

Personally I hate pate, mind, the mere thought of eating it makes me want to worship the porcelin throne.

[nettiehay]

I'm with you peanutbutterkid - we are also human beings so should be allowed to make our own choices and live with the consequences. I must admit, most of the older generation have said take all advice with a pinch of salt, and then do what you want anyway - it's people of my generation (especially those with no children) who are particularly picky about what I should/shouldn't be eating.

[mrsshackleton]

I think with anything bought from a major supermarket the risks of listeria are incredibly low, you'd sue their butts off otherwise,
Having said that I certainly didn't buy any pate during two pgs, did buy pasteurised soft cheeses though. After dd2s birth I filled the fridge with pate, stilton etc and the first time I ate pate we all got vile food poisoning (was from major supermarket but possibly it had been in the fridge too long) which wasn't much fun esp with newborn in the house. Don't think it would have hurt the unborn chid but it would have certainly not been ideal to be puking that much during pg.
But if you've ripped open a brand new packet/tin then go for it and please enjoy and don't feel guilty afterwards! The risk posed is very, very small

[MassiveMollyfloss]

I agree that it is the mother's choice but I know what I would do and I know what I would say if asked for an opinion which is the situation here. The older generation of course say to take today's advice with a pinch of salt but it is true also that in previous generations there were more birth defects. So maybe they ate & drank all the things we are advised not to today and their kids were fine because the risks are TINY. There was a tiny proportion of kids however who were not ok. I do know someone who was ate meat undercooked and was unlucky and got toxoplasmosis and now the child is blind... Anyway, it's just an example and that's what research is telling us today - that there is a risk ( a very small one) and with that knowledge it's ultimately up to you to make a decision.

I on the other hand am sick of women who drank during their own pregnancies constantly telling me it's ok to drink, go on have a drink. I don't want to (well I do really because I LOVE wine!) but feel they are pushing it on me to justify their own past choices. It's simple - we all pretty much know the results of the research out there and it's everybody's own personal decision on how to act on it.

[LoveAndSqualor]

peanutbutterkid, nettiehay, I'm absolutely with you.

colditz: "I do not become a child simply because I am carrying one." - thank you for summing up the one aspect of pregnancy that has comprehensively Done My Head In since I first found out I was up duff (at about seven weeks, btw, so was merrrily quaffing and stuffing myself with liver and even having the occasional cigarette up until then). I am an adult woman who is perfectly capable of reading research, assessing risk and making informed choices without being patronised/dictated to by the health service/society in general

A quick digression: if one more health professional refers to my unborn child as "baby" I will not be responsible for my actions. What's with the cutesyness? It's THE baby or YOUR baby. I'm not a baby; stop talking to me as if I were.

Oof. That feels better.

[Janus]

I think we all make our own choices and no-one should have a go at anyone for eating/drinking the odd thing 'they are not meant to', but obviously no downing a bottle of vodka a night! I haven't eaten pate but 4 days ago I had a chinese and actually ate satay chicken - PEANUTS, EEK! I have been fighting the craving for weeks and gave in, there, done, naughty!

[spackcat]

I think it's ok to eat peanuts now anyway, they have found no difference in allergies in the countries where they are widely eaten both in pregnancy and before the age of 1, so they are now back-tracking on this and saying it's probably fine after all! Personally I'm with coldtits and peanutbutterkid, I don't take too much notice of the advice as they are always changing their minds anyway! Just use a bit of common sense.
LOL nosnikrap,btw!

[spackcat]

As for soft cheeses, isn't it because the cheese is unpasturised? Surely then the cheese board selection in marks and sparks that says that all the cheese is made from pasturised milk in the ingredients list is ok to eat then?

[chloemegjess]

I woudldn't. I have been craving Liver pate through my whole pregnany, and I am now due on sun! I wouldn't, especially if its liver pate, as the vitamin A in in is toxic to the baby, even in smallish amounts. Obviously if you had a TINY bit, it wouldn't do much harm, but there is so much vit A, that even a slice of toast with pate could be very harmfull.

I don't want to scare you, I just know I could never live with myslef because of not being able to stop myself eating it for 9months! I will be eating it as soon as baby is born!

[festivecircus]

I haven't been eating pate but had no idea I was also supposed to avoid prawns! And I'm 39 weeks now so it's probably a bit late to start worrying about it...