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Pregnancy

How can i get a vbac?

32 replies

Melaniec234 · 18/09/2007 20:39

Hi, feeling really down because im 5months pregnant and have been told i need to have a c-section again. Ive had 2 sections before because i went into early labour 30wks and 34wks. But i got a really badly infected wound last time and dont want another section. Also my 5yr old is adhd and autistic. I just feel like i wont be able to cope if ive to have another section. Sorry to rant on, but its really affecting the joy surrounding my pregnacy.

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 20:22

noname.. my earlier post was absolutely not a criticism of you , in any way at all. I can see that you are extremely knowledgeable and coming from a standpoint of being 'with woman' and i absolutely admire that. i have yet to rein in my emotions, and don;t always have the factual knowledge at hand. I am always delighted to learn something on these threads, which would enable me to grow as a doula. My longterm goal is to train as a MW, and I have the greatest respect for those who have done it and are doing it now. so i hope that you see where i am coming from and i am so very sorry that your own personal experiences have been so very sad and traumatic. being unemotional and concise can be a very good thing, and there are two sides to the VBAC coin and it is great to have someone to provide the flipside.

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 15:15

Nice to read a positive vibe there mMelanie.

If I can help in any way to decipher the medical jargon and/or abbreviations in your notes, please ask.

All the best.

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feedmenow · 19/09/2007 15:14

Just to stick my opinion in here, I have had 2 sections and wanted a vbac for third. The first gp I spoke to laughed at me and asked why on earth I would want a vbac when a section is so much nicer. next I saw a consultant who also laughed and said that they would not support me in a vbac at that hospital. THEN, I managed to wangle an appt with a top-dog obs. at another hospital who spent a fantastic hour with me going through statistics, my personal history, reasons behind decisions, etc, etc, etc, etc. She went off a nd looked at both sets of notes and wrote to me a few weeks later saying she would support me if I decided to go ahead with a vbac, but that she had certain conditions. She was also quite honest in her judgement of my liklehood to succeed.

The thing I appreciated most was the consultants honesty, both with regard to me individually and to vabc as a "whole". being told I couldn't "just because" was upsetting and frustrating.

My advice,Melanie, would be to keep pushing at someone until you get a chance to have a proper, decent consultation and conversation and have it all laid out bare for you. At the end of the day, it is your choice but it would be so much better to make your choice based on REAL information instead of the c**p you have been given so far. I have no doubt that if they explained clearly that there are risks because of a, b and c then you will think carefully and make a decision based on reality.

I really hope you get the answers you are after.

xx

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Melaniec234 · 19/09/2007 15:08

Hi, thanks for everyone advice and concern. I obvisouly dont want to risk anything happening to my baby, but i feel like a number not a person in the eyes of the hospital and midwives. Regarding help with my son, thats doubtful as his consultant referred us for respite care, which weve been told by local social work is unavaible due to budget cuts. He only sleeps 2-3hrs every 24hrs. Ive being doing some research through all your kind links and im going to ask to look at my medical records. Once again thanks to everyone

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 14:51

Hi Melanie, Hope you are feeling slightly less cross and angry, it's difficult at times though isn't it?

Wondered if you have a good Health Visitor who understands your situation with your 5yr old?

If ultimately a Caesarean Section is the outcome, be it elective or emergency, maybe the HV could look at the possibility of organising some post natal care for you, or help with the care of your other little ones for a short period.

Sorry if your thread was a little hijacked, trust you know that we all wish for the best outcome for you and the baby.

Maybe making some tentative enquiries now will help you to come to terms with the situation in the event a LSCS is necessary.

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Jbck · 19/09/2007 14:40

It is amazing the power a white coat wields however & the OP does deserve to have a better answer than 'because we say so'. My friend recently had her 3rd section because 'the hospital wont let you try for a natural delivery after 2'. I said I was hoping for vbac this time as my previous section was actually unnecessary according to my consultant and she said she'd been told if you do try they only let you try for about 4 hours labour or something, nothing I could say would convince her otherwise. It's a shame that an intelligent woman is afraid to question that authority and just blindly accepts it.
By all means there may be lots of reasosn why a vbac would put this mother & baby at risk but she should at least know exactly what they are.

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 14:08

I'm not here to score points and I appreciate that my posts may be somewhat 'unemotional' to some people.

Learning to impart knowledge in concise manner has been part of my background.

I would never presume to tell a woman what a LSCS was like from a patient's point of view, not been there, not done that.

However I am very passionate about childbirth and my personal experience includes a full term neonatal death at 1/2hr, a full term stillbirth undiagnosed breech/obstructed labour at home amongst other things.

Yes , my passions can run high, but it doesn't mean I can't be objective.

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BetsyBoop · 19/09/2007 13:57

Melanie

I would ask for a referral to another consultant for a second opinion.

You are perfectly within your rights to ask for more information about why they think VBA2C is out of the question for you.

I'm not (and never have been) suggesting anyone goes against medical advice, but I for one want/need to understand why that option is the only course open. The reason I suggested reading up on VBACs is to enable you to ask some pertinent questions & get some answers.

There are some great doctors (and midwives/nurses) who can explain things at your level, and I have much more confidence in them than those that either treat you like an ill-informed idiot or go for the "don't worry yourself doctor knows best" routine (and I've met a few of those in my time...)

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 13:57

absolutely.

i think that i come from a more impassioned and emotional view point, having had a VBAC , that was absolutely life changing in its positivity. The thought of other women potentially being denied that chance, for dubious reasons, or not getting the full information they need, makes me angry .

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 13:51

On here we can only base our opinions on what the OP has told us, not peculiar to this thread I might add.

Which is why in an earlier post I suggested that all information regarding previous sections was relevant and should be made available.

We are on the same side lulumama, slightly different outlooks based on personal experience, knowledge and education, but ultimately, I believe we persue the same goal for mums, babies and not forgetting other involved members of the family.

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 13:43

sometimes valid concerns are totally hidden by sweeping protocol and 'because i said so'

if this lady is at real and great risk of rupture because of her previous c.s , then she absolutely needs to know, and know why .

if she is being told this because there is a blanket policy of no VBAC after 2 c,s, then she cannot make an informed choice.

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 13:40

That's one of the reasons I get concerned about people making informed decisions regarding their care.

You can give all the available information to someone, but their comprehension of what is involved is limited by their knowledge.

I don't wish to sound patronising, condescending or any other 'ing.

If I went to a garage and asked them to repair a problem with my car, I possibly may have a reasonable idea of what they were telling me. In no way would I tell them they were wrong with their diagnosis and not to do something which they advised was the safest.

Yes, I would ask questions, get more than one estimate etc.

Why, when the safety of mother and baby is paramount do people disregard a professionals valid concerns for them?

Oh yes, because it's their right!

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 12:50

i think an obs having reservations is fine, but to be spoken to so objectionably is uncalled for. I didn't know that about the lower uterin segment , >

and will not give anyone confidence in their health care provider.

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 12:48

Hi curlywurly

The lower segment of the uterus starts forming at around the 24th week of pregnancy, and is fully present by 36 weeks.


Despite scans, there is still some debate about the accuracy of gestation.

Two scars on a uterus that hasn't been subjected to a full term pregnancy is why I have my concerns and ca understand the obstetricians reservations.

Not saying others may not argue differently.

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curlywurlycremeegg · 19/09/2007 12:32

Noname, I do agree with you re gestation. but surely by 30 weeks the lower uterine segment should have been formed allowing a bikini line incision on the skin and horizontal in cision on the uterus.

Melanie, try to find out what sort of incisions were made during the both c/s. AIMS are a great resource, Beverly Beech will help you ask all the right questions to get the answers you need, please do speak to them

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 12:21
Smile
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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 12:19

Beat me to it lulumama lol

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 12:18

So sorry Melanie to hear that, understand your frustration.

Was the appointment with a doctor or midwife?

The may be coreect in their advice re another section, but there is absolutely no excuse for their bad manners.

If after all considerations you do decide on a vaginal delivery, I believe after looking at the DoulaUK website that they can sometimes 'fund' a doula in certain needy cases.

Hopefully, one of the lovely doulas on here will know.

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 12:13

oh sweetheart

really sorry

sounds like you are being fobbed off

you can still have a doula, if you are unable to afford one, doula UK have a fund that provides doulas for women who cannot afford to pay . contact doulas local to you to explain the situation.

also, have a look at this site birthchoice uk , you can always look at going to a different hospital if your current hospital is not forthcoming in helping you get the birth you want.

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Melaniec234 · 19/09/2007 12:07

Hi, just back from appointment and very upset and angry. I asked for specific reasons why they thought i needed another section. Their response was in my opinion very rude, "you need a section again, because youve had 2 previous, and theres no way you can have a normal delivery". The only reason they would give for previous section was because id went into early labour. I explained again that ive a special needs son and felt like it would be a lot to cope with another section. Their reply was i should of thought of this before getting pregnant again. I came out feeling guilty that im pregnant. Cant afford a doula as my son needs one to one care and my hubby has been made redundant.

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NoNameToday · 19/09/2007 10:29

Hi Melanie,

I understand your concerns about coping after another section and respect your wish to try to have a vaginal delivery.

Fantastic advice for you from other posters re VBAC.

However I think the concerns of the obstetrician may be regarding the preterm gestation when the previous sections were done.

The incision when the lower segment has not fully formed is of more significance for subsequent labours.

Perhaps you can ask your midwife to provide you with full information from your previous notes.

Also the indication for the caesarean in your previous deliveries, prematurity on its own is not a valid indication.

Were there other risk factors such as fetal distress, infection, abnormal lie?

You deserve to have these questions answered to your satisfaction before you make a decision.

Hope this helps

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 09:15
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MarsLady · 19/09/2007 07:50

and there she is!

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 07:29

that link is very long oops !

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lulumama · 19/09/2007 07:28

hi melanie

no-one can force you to have a c.s. you might want to look at this site c.s and vbac support) there are a couple of posters on here, DaisyMOO , for sure who have had v.b after two c.s. And she had it at home ! you might have to be more forceful , and show you are making an informed decision, ink{http://www.aims.org.ukAIMS can help with what you are 'allowed' to do

i would also look at having a a doula who can help you research VBAC and support you before, during and after the birth.

there is nothing to be sorry about, wanting to have a vaginal delivery is normal and the way you are feeling is normal. It is a shame when you feel you have to struggle to get the birth you want.

Have you been told why it is so risky?

or is it just a bog standard response?

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