How similar is a lumbar puncture to an epidural?

[Hayesdays]

I had a lumbar puncture a few years ago and found it very painful. Are there any mums out there who have had one and also had an epidural for childbirth?

I'm wondering if there are any similarities between the two in terms of the way they are administered, did you find the lumbar puncture painful and was an epidurals painful too?!

I'm feeling very anti epidural because of my lumbar puncture experience so would love to hear from other mums please.

In a perfect world I'd love to go for the drug free route but I know this isn't always possible and I don't want to be scared of the epidural should I need it...Do I just need to suck it up, stop being a plonker and get on with it?! Hope that makes sense to somebody? TIA

[maryd84]

I had a lumber puncture done a couple of years ago and it was the worst thing I've ever experienced in all my life.

The actual lumber puncture procedure was bad enough. (It was so uncomfortable I broke out in a cold sweat).

But it was the week and a half afterwards that was torture. I had a CSF leak and couldn't lift my head off the pillow without excruciating pain. The nausea and vomiting after it was also terrible.

I'm now pregnant with my first baby and terrified of the thoughts of an epidural. Is it as bad as a lumber puncture?

[ActuallyItsEugene]

My lumbar puncture was horrendous (checking for a bleed.) They used about 3 shots of anaesthetic, misplaced the needle countless times and I cried and bit a pillow throughout.
I'm no wimp with pain either.
Caused a CSF leak and left me with a horrific headache (couldn't lift head of pillow or move) for a week.

I didn't feel my epidural. At all.
I had gas and air, the midwife held both my hands as I sat forward on the bed and it was done.
You just need to sit very still.

Good luck OP.

[oohnicevase]

Lumber punctures are supposed to be horrific . I've had an epidural and a spinal block and they don't hurt . You are numbed !

[Hayesdays]

Just thought I’d update this in case it comes in useful for anyone else!

I had my baby back in November via emergency C-section at 36+2. It appears I have some tolerance to local anaesthetic as I found the spinal block very painful. It was worse than the contractions! Saying that, I would totally go through it again should I be lucky enough to have another baby. So if like me you are worried about the pain of an epidural/spinal block and the anaesthetic doesn’t work for you just think of the little bundle of cuteness you get at the end of it. It’s utterly worth it I promise...I would do it again without a doubt ❤️

[Hayesdays]

Yes the lumbar puncture was for meningitis which I had an awful headache with anyway so I’m not sure if the LP contributed too or not.

I’m glad this thread may have helped a few other mums to be. There is very little information on old Dr Google about the similarities. Pretty much everything I read suggested a lumbar puncture should be numbed but sounds like that isn’t the case for many of us. I can’t imagine how a child would cope. I hope those who’s children have had them made a speedy recovery and aren’t traumatised by the experience like I was!

[Anaes]

I'd expect a lumbar puncture to be less sore than an epidural, and quicker. Unfortunately if you might have meningitis it is less likely you will have a doctor doing the procedure who does it often - and thus it can prove more uncomfortable and difficult.

[Anaes]

Neither a lumbar puncture nor an epidural need be painful. The trouble is that not all doctors performing these procedures are experienced at them, which I think is unfair. On Labour Ward the anaesthetisrs should be pretty good at these injections. I have had two LPs and both hurt less than the smallest drip the hospital keeps placed in my arm. For most people they should be quick procedures (maybe five minutes for a spinal and ten for an epidural). The chances of a persistent and nasty headache after each should be less than 1 in 100 at most. If an anaesthetist knows you have such a headache they are likely to offer a 'blood patch' a similar procedure where they take blood from you and put it into your back with full resolution of the headache in 75% on first attempt and 75% of the remainder on a repeat procedure. There's a 1 in 1000 chance of some minor nerve injury such as a number patch' on your leg. Most of these get better tho maybe 1 in 13000 persist longer than six months.
I hope that helps. Please don't be too afraid of these injections. If you want one and find it sore tell the doctor. If it is still sore you can always tell them to stop immediately and they MUST do so.
There's really good evidence based free advice on all aspects of pain relief in labour on //www.labourpains.com, the site of the Obstetric Anaesthetists Association.

[timshelthechoice]

Yeah, see, spinals are done by anaesthetists as well.

[timshelthechoice]

Dear god, Bab, that's fucking infuriating and dangerous, too! I had one of those leaks as an adult and it was horrific and I was old enough to really get it was just one of those things. Why on Earth does this happen? I think they should all be forced to have one themselves or do them on each other.

[stellavisionandunderstanding]

I have a lumbar puncture, a spinal and an epidural tall. Lumbar puncture was the worst by a country mile. Epidural didn't hurt at all; felt like the beginning of an injection. Hope that helps! Xx

[Babdoc]

I was horrified when DD2 had a lumbar puncture at the age of 12, for a suspected subarachnoid bleed.
I’m an anaesthetist, and stood there gobsmacked as the paediatrician not only used no local anaesthetic, but used a cutting needle, leaving DD with a CSF leak and splitting headache for a week. It hadn’t occurred to me to check first - I couldn’t believe he’d be so out of date and barbaric!

[CatSmize]

It seems quite barbaric not to adequately anaesthetise a patient for a lumbar puncture. They definitely do so with children.

I agree, although I had one at 11 (meningitis) and wasn't anesthesised. The needle went in 4 or 5 times and I could feel it moving around inside my spine each time I found it pretty traumatic.

It was without a doubt the most painful thing I've gone through and I'm so glad you've asked this question, OP, as I would like an epidural but am terrified it will be like the LP! This thread is encouraging

[Mumoftoo19]

I've had a Lumbar Puncture it was horrific and they hit a nerve. The epidural I didnt really feel as was obviously in labour. I have suffered with lower back pain on and off since epidural though. That was 8 years ago.

[Bol87]

In comparison to back to back labour contractions, the epidural (x2, one failed) did not hurt at all. I don’t even remember it. But I can remember the agony of labour. .. you just need to keep really still, why my first one failed apparently. No idea how I was meant to do that with constant contractions! The second time, they gave me a quick spinal block and then an epidural.. again, I don’t remember any pain from the actual procedures!

[timshelthechoice]

I loved my epidurals (and GAs that were needed for surgery)!

[timshelthechoice]

It seems quite barbaric not to adequately anaesthetise a patient for a lumbar puncture. They definitely do so with children. I find a lot of undermedicating for many of these it's shocking. I have PTSD and needed endoscopy and they gave me mega sedation, thankfully.

[chrisask]

Have had neither procedure (touch wood) but regularly perform and train others to perform both.

Epidurals and lumbar punctures are similar to an extent (both typically involve bending over the edge of a bed and passing a needle between the bones in the back).

The purposes are difference. Lumbar punctures are typically diagnostic and performed by general medical docs who perform fewer of these procedures and are less experienced with local anaesthetic. Epidurals are for pain relief and performed by anaesthetists who perform much higher numbers and have specific expertise with pain relief.

Don't be afraid of an epidural if you feel you need one, even if it's not in your birth plan. No one is keeping score, the important thing is you do what is right for you at the time.
If it does feel sore going in, tell the anaesthetist. They can always stick in some more anaesthetic.

Hope that helps

[Hayesdays]

Thank you all so much!

I’m feeling a lot more confident now about pain relief choices. I’m just hoping to have all options open to me and go into it not being afraid. And you’ve all helped to ease my fears, so thank you xxx

[Babdoc]

Epidurals are performed by anaesthetists and we are awesome at pain relief - it’s our “thing”!
Lumbar punctures are done by general physicians or neurologists who don’t have the same training, and may not numb the area first.
Not that I’m biased...

[Guessmydog]

I've had both op, the local anaesthetic stung (for lumbar puncture, can't remember if you have it for epidural) but neither were painful. The recovery from the lumbar puncture was awful and I had the worst headaches, whereas the epidural took all the pain away. I never wanted an epidural but the pain was too much so I went with it, so glad i did! Lumbar puncture was administered laying on my side, curled up, epidural sat up.

[Sammy867]

I found the lumbar puncture painful. The local anaesthetic started to wear off when the sample wasn't quite taken (meningitis) so they just had to continue. It took around 20minutes to get a large enough sample. Epidural is over with quickly. Feeling a large needle in your spine without local anaesthetic is definitely not fun and games but was necessary at the time.

[MiniMum97]

Lumbar punctures are known for being very painful. I had a spinal after birth and it wasn't painful at all (no more than an injection). I was lying down.

[Zebrasinpyjamas]

I have had two epidurals and neither hurt. I not at all 'brave' with pain 😄. I was having them before contractions so I hadn't had any other pain relief first either.
The second went in straight away. The first one took a few attempts to get right so there were two/three sharp pricks for the failed attempts but they were bearable and quick .

[SusieSusieSoo]

I don't remember the epidural being painful but I had had a lot of gas & air. I remember having to hug the junior doctor who also hugged me (to keep me still) whilst the consultant or whoever it was put it in.

My back was a mess when they pulled the tape off my back from where it was all fixed on but the epidural was brilliant and I would definitely recommend to anyone despite the fact that I had twinges/tingles on my back where they ripped the skin off with the tape for the next 3 years.

[MrsApplepants]

I’ve had both and found neither particularly painful, the lumbar puncture possibly worse.