please don't flame me- I don't think I want this baby

[quertas]

I'm sat here in tears hoping someone can offer some advice. I'm sorry for the long post and I've name changed for this because I don't want to out myself. I'm 29 weeks pg with a second DC and hating every minute of it. I have a 2 year old DD who I adore and this is... was... a wanted baby. I got pg first time of trying and I guess I wasn't expecting to get pg so soon. I was thinking it would take months if it happened at all. First time we had unprotected sex, bingo, pg.

At first I was pleased but as time's gone on I've realised I have no feelings for this baby at all. He moves and I find it irritating and wish he'd stop (he moves a lot). I resent being this fat and tired and ugly and everything that is going wrong with my body, which feels like all the minor and not so minor pregnancy niggles - sickness, tiredness, ringing in my ears, backaches, headaches, sleeplessness, you name it. I hate that I've hard to give up doing so many of the things I enjoy for this pregnancy and resent every minute I have to spend doing pregnancy related crap. DH has recently taken a new job and works a 2 hour commute away so, I hardly ever get to see him anymore. He didn't want a second child particularly but agreed to my request on the basis it'd make me happy. Now I find it hard to say I'm not happy.

I have literally no-one to talk to, about this or anything else, as I work from home a lot, and can go days without seeing anyone else other than DH for an hour or so in the evening. My family and I don't get on and in any case they live a long way away. I've only seen a midwife twice so far and not the same one so I don't feel like I can talk to them. When I have seen them they always have a student there and just chat between themselves - fair enough they have to learn, I'm not whinging- but it makes it hard to ask anything you don't already know the answer to. And in any case I'd be scared to. What I (don't) feel about this one is nothing to do with what I do feel about my DD and I worry that people might think I'm crap with her too. Matters are not helped I suppose by the fact that DH has to go away for a conference for a week abroad (he really does have to) about a month after this one's due date and I'm dreading being on my own with a newborn and DD.

I'm trying to shop for baby clothes and stuff we need and I find it so off putting. With DD I shopped and prepared and painted and wondered about what she'd look like and picked out things for her carefully. With this one, I haven't given him a minutes thought really. I sorted through some old sleepsuits of DDs that never made it to the charity shop for the least girly and that's kind of been it. People ask if we've got a name picked out and when DD was at this stage, yes I had, for sure and was passionate about the issue. With this one, no, haven't thought. All I can think about is how much this is going to ruin the time I have with DD and how worried I am that I won't like this one because he's taking time away from my DD.

What the hell is wrong with me? Does anyone else feel so disconnected?

[SlowlyWakingUp]

Only read the OP but I have been exactly where you are and honestly all my worries and feelings of 'what the fuck have you done' completely disappeared the minute I saw DS. My maternal instinct just kicked in automatically and he is absolutely adored.

I was going from 3 DCs to 4 though but the feelings of being completely overwhelmed with the responsibility and hard work to come can be the same with any additional child. I, like you, got pregnant on the 1st and only time DH and I had unprotected sex. The next day, we said 'No it would be crazy to have another one' then bingo, within weeks I discovered I was pregnant! We really did not expect it to happen either and I was in absolute shock that it did. During my pregnancy I swung from delight and excitement to utter despair and terror (probably partly due to us being made homeless when I was 6 months pregnant ) but he is here now and almost 3 and I would not be without him.

I wish you all the best and just want to let you know you are probably still in a bit of shock and I promise you, the fact that you're worried about how you will feel about this baby, probably means that you don't need to worry at all.

[PetiteRaleuse]

I could have written this post last year. I felt my family was already complete when I fell pregnant, and resented at worst, and was completely indifferent towards at best, DC2 right through the pregnancy. I felt horribly guilty towards DC1 who was too young to understand what was going on. I didn't feel depressed, just meh, and slightly annoyed at myself on occasion for being pregnant.

An ELCS was planned and I kept trying to persuade the doctor to put it off a week longer so I could enjoy having just one child one week longer.

With neither of my two have I felt the instant rush when they have been born - I have fallen in love with them gradually over the first few weeks. But DC2 is almost six months old now and is amazing. I can't believe there were moments during the pregnancy when I just didn't want to know, looking back. But that's fine. She is here now, and as I said, amazing. As amazing as her big sister, and I never thought that would be possible.

Please don't worry. You really will get there. I spoke with a couple of people as I was quite anxious - doctors and midwives, not friends and family - and they reassured me it was, if not the most common state of mind, common enough to not be a worry at all.

[quertas]

thanks all. Here's fingers crossed it will resolve itself. I am a big worrier at the best of time so probably I'm making too much of this! Thanks for all your support, it really does mean a lot!

[redplanet]

Please don't worry too much about it- it sounds as if you are feeling overwhelmed and guilty about deciding to have another against the DH's wishes and that you are just having a hard time. You are so hormonal when you are pregnant, lots of people don't enjoy it and don't find it easy to bond with the baby until it is born/ gets a bit bigger, even with 2nd and subsequent pregnancies. It sounds like you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself and maybe if you just try to get on with things and not desperately try to feel totally in love with the idea yet you might just feel a bit better about it. I felt all sorts of emotions about my first pregnancy in particular but love both my children so much now. Don't feel too stressed about how you are feeling, give yourself a break. People have babies they don't desperately want initially all the time, most love them unbelievably in the end and are good parents, and despite the fact that you probably realize that you and anyone who has a healthy baby is so, so lucky to have it, it can be completely overwhelming. Don't feel too guilty and good luck with everything- you will be fine!

[Blistory]

It's okay not to enjoy pregnancy. It doesn't mean that you're a lousy mother or won't love this baby. It might just mean that you're not enjoying this pregnancy.

There's so much pressure to be a blooming, fertile, earth mother goddess breezing through pregnancy, content in the knowledge that you're doing as nature intended and bringing life into the world. The excitement, the strangeness, the wonder of the first pregnancy is what gets you through it. Second time around, you don't necessarily have all that but you do have the aches, the pains, the inconvenience, the partner who's a bit more blase about the second pregnancy and childbirth.

It really is okay and normal to be a bit 'meh' about the actual pregnancy itself. You might be depressed but you might just be normal.

[colditz]

Babe, I suffered with prenatal depression with ds2, and you've described how I was feeling to a tee.

The good news is, there are many anti depressants available to use in pregnancy, and they are safe. Nobody will think you are a bad mother. My midwife was lovely about the whole thing.

You won't feel like this forever, I bloody promise you. This was me seven years ago, but now I feel great.

Please tell someone. Don't hide the depression, the depression is a sodding war criminal and deserves to be grassed up and eradicated.

[Wishiwasanheiress]

Well I wish u much luck. I don't want to sound like I'm against help. I'm emphatically not. I just didn't want all ur posters to say u had to get help. Sort of ganging up then aren't we and I really don't feel able to say whether u need help or not. I think u can feel things and need help and also feel things but not need help. How thin that line is between the two is totally individual. Only u can say...

I do very much encourage u to keep posting questions as they occur to u. The help and encouragement i got from here was/is brilliant.

[atrcts]

You sound overwhelmed by it all. Sleepless nights are a killer for positivity - no wonder it's all too much! I wonder if you would consider discussing your symptoms to see if there is anything that can be done to help, which may make life a little more bearable for you?
I don't doubt your little girl will LOVE to play second mummy, they all do!
You sound like you feel horribly trapped by it all and I can fully understand how the idea of being in your own a lot post birth seems a bit too much. You could ask for 'homestart' to help if you wanted - it's a free service where a charity sends you an experienced CBR Checked parent to help for, say, an afternoon, usually once a week, til you feel stronger and more able (you call the shots and there are no medical records to worry about).

I hope you feel better very soon

[mouses]

I have 3 dc's, 1st pregnancy flew by, loved every minute of it. 2nd pregnancy i hated, hated the movements, being fat, had SPD so struggled to get around. i have body dysmophia so cried most of the tim at how fat my face and arse looked!

and im goin to be honest - i felt nothing when ds2 was born, didnt want to pick him up, cried when he cried, cried when he slept..it wasnt until he was 18mths old that i actually felt some thing towards him. i now know that id had PND. i didnt get no help i just thought i got over my own feelings?

3rd preg was the same, hated it, i had severe SPD from early pregnancy through to the end. my ds2 was a nightmare child and i found being pregnant and dealing with him was too much. also i was carrying a girl and not having a good relationship with my mum i used to have panic attacks that she wouldnt like me or i wont have any love for her? forward to her birth - i loved her minute she was born! we have a bond i cant explain, in fact it was too much, i wouldnt let no one touch her, no one could feed her.
i wouldnt let her dad take her out or away from me. i was snappy, angry, teary towards people.

i knew i needed help, pnd was back but i left it thinking social services woul take kids away if they thought i had a problem. i left it til last summer dc3 was 2 when i had a break down trying to cope with all my feelings

i was dragged to my gp (by my oh) and was prescribed anti d's, it help me so much - i just wished id went to see gp all those years ago :-(

sorry its long winded but i just wanted to share my experience so you dont feel so alone with your feelings, please see your gp. nothing bad wll happen, you'll be relieve to get it all off your chest to some one who can help x

[Liara]

I would also say don't worry too much about the jealousy issue.

We have yet to have one episode of jealousy between ds1 and ds2 - who is now 3 yo. They adore each other and play with each other constantly.

Seeing them play with each other is the best feeling in the whole world, bar none.

[PanpiperAtTheGatesOfYawn]

Obviously we can't force you to speak to a GP but if you start to feel morbidly anxious or that things are becoming unbearable do keep it up your sleeve.

Don't forget how google works: your results don't mean that perinatal mental health is only for child protection agencies in you area, more that they were the most common searches done by other people.

Also, I won't pretend that having two won't be tiring (as you know from having one anyway!). But it is oh so rewarding. It really, really is.

[quertas]

Thanks all,

Its really good to know that other people's DCs have managed the transition to siblinghood. I guess once I've got an actual baby in front of me things will be different or seem different. In any case at 29 weeks there are a surprising lack of other options! If I was this bad and didn't have DD then I guess I'd be thinking adoption but you can't have one and have another adopted can you.

I think there must be a lot of regional variation in services. I did just google perinatal mental health for my region but the top 10 hits were all references in the context of child protection bodies! So I think that's decisively off the agenda for me. Its a difficult situation I suppose because on the one hand I don't want to feel this way forever but on the other I really think that talking to a GP could lead to some outcomes I'm just not able to cope with.

Work is an issue its true gertrudestein. I'm due to go on mat leave the day after my due date so that I can have the full time with the new baby. With DD I took 9 months but I will have to go back full time at 5 months this time so I guess that's not improving things either. Working from home is better than the commute my poor DH has, but its a bit relentless and tends to resume after bedtime which makes it hard to have any 'down' time. Again maybe once I'm off work this will be better.

Its nice to hear that others have had positive outcomes of this though and I'm hoping that once the baby's actually here, things will improve. I take heart from heiress's experience. Maybe I'm just panicking! I think also maybe when I was pg with DD I was better able to overlook the negative side of pg, plus to be fair she was an easier pg than this has turned out to be, and of course I had no idea what I was letting myself in for. Ignorance is bliss on that one!

[noblegiraffe]

I also felt quite disconnected in my second pregnancy, my first was a bad sleeper and I was dreading the first year. When people said I must be excited about the impending birth, I couldn't really tell them that I wasn't. I hated being pregnant and didn't go shopping for baby bits or pack my hospital bag until the very last minute (ELCS) as that would make it real.

The only positive was how excited my DS was about the baby (he was 3.5 when she was born, so a bit older than your DD).

My DD is now 11 weeks and it is going really well. I felt a bit disconnected the first few weeks, she was a baby to be changed, fed, put to sleep, but now she's smiling and responding to my attempts to make her smile we're building up a lovely relationship.

My DS loves her. He gets a bit annoyed at not having undivided attention when she is feeding, and having to be quiet when she's asleep, but babies are quite portable so I can hold her and read him a story or play or fetch him stuff. I'm making good use of a sling - far far easier than a buggy for getting out and about, so I can hold his hand, go around the shops, take him to the park without having to fuss over her.

There are also things you can do to ease the transition. A good book/DVD was Zsa Zsa's baby brother which is a cartoon about getting a baby brother, mummy being tired, daddy being busy etc. DS chose a present for the baby when he met her and she got him one. He's asked to help fetch nappies and stuff for the baby the praised for being a good big brother. He has needed a bit more babying, but when the baby sleeps, there is time for that.

[PanpiperAtTheGatesOfYawn]

Can I just second what caffeine says about not seeking help being one of the most evil side effects of depression?

My best friend sat in a house with no power in the depths of that freezing 2009 winter for five days because she 'didn't want to bother anyone to fix it and wanted to be left alone'. I know it's not quite the same, but you can probably see little parallels?

Also - this is hopefully reassuring about jealousy - DD1 was not only the first baby, she was also the first grandchild and sharing was something that happened to other people . When I was pg I was holding a friend's newborn baby and DD1 ran across the room and tried to slap the baby out of my hands. I was terrified.

It wasn't easy at first, there was a lot of uproar and DD1 was very unimpressed, though she never tried to hurt the baby, it was more general playing up. But she dealt with it - as children generally do - and now DD2 is 13 months old and she adores her. She bosses her about, hugs her, scolds her and generally treats her like a loveable, if irritating, doll. DD2 simply adores her. It has been very, very good for DD1, and my worst fears never even came close to being realised.

Oh, and DD1 cannot even remember a time when DD2 didn't exist. Nor will your DD if she's only 2 - DD1 was 2.3 when DD2 was born.

[CaffeineDeficit]

While I agree that none of us are qualified to diagnose others over the internet, I think it's also important to acknowledge that one of the nastiest tricks that depression plays is to convince us that there's no point seeking help or that the help that's offered will make the situation even worse (and I speak from personal experience on this one).

OP, I had many of the thoughts you had when I was pregnant with DS (particularly the ones about bodily changes and bringing it on myself because I was more keen to get pregnant than DH). I got referred to perinatal mental health and they were brilliant.

I didn't have to go to any more appointments than I otherwise would have done, but all my appointments either were with a named, highly experienced midwife who specialised in supporting mums who were having a tougher than average time in pregnancy and was bloody brilliant, or with a really nice consultant who explained stuff but let me make my own choices about whether I wanted to take ADs and what sorts of support I wanted. It meant I didn't have to keep explaining myself, didn't have to deal with student midwives/doctors at appointments (they recognised this was not appropriate). If I'd wanted, the MW would have come to see me at home rather than me having to trek to the clinic for antenatal appointments.

So, it might be worth trying to have a chat with a MW or your GP. If they offer some type of help that you don't want, you're always free to refuse it later, or you could try it and then decide whether it's right for you - nothing's set in stone. If you can't say the stuff you've written above, what about printing out your post and taking it with you?

[Wishiwasanheiress]

I think it's quite dangerous to be diagnosing someone over the Internet. It's been suggested, op has acknowledged the suggestion and intimated she's not comfortable yet progressing that way. She may feel differently and now has this as some support.

For a minute lets assume u are simply nervous, scared and overwhelmed by this new pregnancy. Many are. I posted myself just before my birth and received many people saying I hadn't broken my family. I wouldn't be a bad mummy by having 2, that they felt this way before nos 3 and 4 too as its the unknown all over again.

It's right to be nervous, just try to be a little objective. Thousands if families have second kids and cope. You can too (and are now aware you can get help if not). My dd is 2, she's a massive mummy's girl. Comes to me for everything, which oftens saddens daddy. I thought she would hit meltdown with dd2 arriving. She didn't. She was curious. She was a bit trepidatious (is that a word?!) and I had to remember if she acted up she wasn't being naughty but testing to see if she would be treated how she always would be to make sure she was loved. It's now 10wks. Dd1 mostly ignores dd2 as dd2 sleeps alot. Handy! We play together and I bf on the floor alot. She wants to rock dd2 and play with her and enjoys sharing her bath with her. I've frankly been astounded. I was almost completely wrong as to how it would be and how she would feel. I am immensely grateful for that. Dd1 has again taught me how to be a mummy. It's fascinating to still feel that and she's shown me what a generous thing toddlers can be.

Ultimately dd1 has a friend for life. How it turns out will be up to them. I hope they will respect and like each other. They would be fine on their own but they have a marvellous gift, each other. Dd2 is fascinated already by dd1. I hope that lasts.

I hope this helps. I wish I'd put my energy of being scared into being optimistic. Hindsight eh? But then I didn't know. So, take it day by day And post on here if u need help. Be aware you can talk to ur GP and also aware that much of ur feelings are normal too. Only u can choose to seek further support and if u do need to do it without guilt.

Good luck babes

[BraveLilBear]

Hi quertas so sorry to hear you feel so desperate. Just wanted to add to the above about AND - I recently went to a public lecture about perinatal mental health and it's a growing area of knowledge among GPs, MWs and HVs and many areas now have specialist perinatal mental health professionals.

Please don't be put off by the idea of a 'mental health' problem - there is so much physical, hormonal and emotional changes that happen during pregnancy all coupled with an increasing lack of control. Add into that this is your second and you're probably more tired than first time around due to having a toddler running around and it's not surprising that you feel overwhelmed!

Please talk to your GP and ask specifically about perinatal mental health specialists. Fingers crossed for you

[gertrudestein]

I recognise a lot of your symptoms and also think it sounds like Antenatal Depression. I know exactly how you feel about the GP, but just want to reassure you that it doesn't mean they will intrude unnecessarily, or that they will think badly of your relationship with DD.

The way that you are feeling is not unusual and not wrong. Believe me, I've thought and said some much more horrific things about how I feel about this baby, and nobody has tried to do anything except empathise and help.

I went to the GP and they did two things: 1. refer me to the perinatal mental health team and 2. refer me to a special parent and infant centre.

I go to the hospital to see the perinatal team once a fortnight for an hour, and go to the parent and infant centre once a week. I don't have any other DC but if I did, I could take them along to both appointments. In fact, the parent and infant centre is all about how you function as a family, so it sounds like that's the kind of thing that would be perfect for you.

(They actually asked my DH to come along, and I told him about it. I was shocked that he has actually come to a couple of appointments, even though I thought he was too busy and doesn't like people to intrude. But it turns out he loves me and wants to help - so I shouldn't have been worried about telling him after all.)

My point is, you don't have to do something that takes you away from your DD, or that makes any demands on your DH.

Like you, I have no friends or family I can talk to and worry that my DP has to bear all the brunt of it. I go to pieces when he goes away with work.

Also, as joie says, it's possible to take some antidepressants in pregnancy, and it's worth discussing this with your doctor if you're finding it difficult to cope.

It sounds like you're in quite a dark place, and there just doesn't seem to be any way out of it, but feeling like that is a symptom of depression, not the cause. Can you take a break from work for a little while? I'm also self employed and know this can sometimes seem impossible, but I've now taken the step and feel a lot less stressed and able to cope with all the things I have to do to prepare for my DS. Tbh I had no idea how completely exhausted I've been physically and mentally, and having a few days where I can sleep for an hr in the middle of the day has made a big difference.

Also, in answer to your worries about a sibling: you're doing something very special. A sibling relationship is incredibly important and your children will benefit from it for all of their lives. Yes DD will be a bit jealous but also fascinated and interested in the baby, and she will enjoy being an older sister. (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with only children - God knows there's no way in hell that I'm having more than one! - but my older brother is less than 2 yrs older than me and we have a wonderful relationship. It must have been hard for my mother but I appreciate it!)

[joiemecconue]

Hi quertas, I'm not suggesting you need any but sometimes it is ok to take medications during pregnancy (I am staying on citalopram and quietapine) or there could be CBT if you did turn out to have depression. I don't think there are swarms of HVs to spare for every pregnant woman who feels low ;)

[quertas]

Thanks everybody,

I'm relieved that other people have felt like this and gone on to love their DCs. I do feel completely trapped in this stupid failing body as you describe piper, that really rang a bell with me, and yes I can't ask DH for help because I did bring this on myself, despite him saying he wasn't keen, and like you heiress I just panic that I've ruined everything. I'm worried that all these pregnancy niggles will actually turn out to be permanent problems and then I'll have no energy left to run round after DD, or that DD will hate the new one -she's certainly going to be jealous and I'm not sure how she'll cope. When we talked about having another one I thought they'd play together and be there for each other, but now I'm not so sure. Of course its too late now to be thinking of this and I know that.

I take on board what people have said about depression,but I really can't talk to my GP. What can they offer me without having people intruding on my life ? That's only going to make me feel worse. I can't do anything that would risk the time I have with DD and I don't think DH would forgive me if we ended up with a swarm of health visitors round or something worse. We're very quiet old farts really and need a lot of time by ourselves and I don't think I could cope with that. My experience of the HV we had with DD was of having to choke back comments, (like 'yes we think its fine to breastfeed a 5 month old, thanks' and 'no, its fine I'm not prepared to leave her crying to see if she'll go back to sleep on her own') smile and nod and then carry on with what we were doing anyway. Thankfully we've not had to see an HV since DD was 1 but once you've got a label attached things are not so simple. I think worrying about that kind of intervention would just make it worse for me and make me feel more like I've cocked up.

I know I'm really lucky to be pregnant again. Many people would give their eye teeth to be pregnant and all. Maybe I'm just being scared and spooked!

[sjupes]

I feel sort of the same - pregnant with dc3 very soon after dc2s first birthday.

Dp and i both went into shock and are still not 100% with the pregnancy

What has helped me feel as though i'm bonding has been buying for the baby - almost everything was bought by 16 weeks and now i'm 22 weeks and we know its a dd2 i've been buying her clothes etc.

I still don't have a rush of love for her like i did for dd1 or ds - dd1 was my first precious baby and ds was my sweet miracle baby 6 years later, to suddenly have another baby 'thrust' on me is not the greatest feeling.

Try to think about how 'lucky' you are that dd gets to love a sibling, someone to grow up with etc etc..

[toomuchpink]

I agree you should discuss your feelings with your GP. At the same time, it is I am sure very normal to feel differently about your second pregnancy. I know lots of wonderful parents who could not imagine how they could love their second child like their first, and feared how the second child would upset the nice family life they had got going.
I bet you are exhausted from being pregnant and doing so much care of your first born which is why pregnancy symptoms that were fun the first time are annoying now. Here's a thought: I would have hated to be an only child and giving your older a playmate will (most of the time) be a brilliant thing for her.

[Wishiwasanheiress]

Also I think I ws just scared not depressed. What do u think u r?

[honey86]

i can relate... but im only 10+2 so im not feeling movements yet. long story but.... ive not long split with my ex (dad) as he got nasty and jealous and said some pretty vile things to me. ever since, ive become abit disconnected too, as this baby i feel is a reminder of him (and his words). i briefly thought about termination but after researching it (and the procedures) i just couldnt bear to do it. i feel i helped make this baby so i must take responsibility now... but thats what led to that feeling... anxiety and just no bonding feeling... though im not sure how ill feel once i get kicks..

beware though cos it could be antenatal depression cropping up... ive had postnatal depression with each of my three and its well worth asking for help.

all the best