Controversial!!! Have/do you drink alcohol in pregnancy?

[DanniiH]

Hi mummies.

Just wanting to get some opinions from real people not a regulatory body.

Personally I don't see the harm in having a glass of wine when pregnant but guidelines say to have none. I'm sure we've all heard people say my mum drank lots and I turned out fine and this is usually true I'm sure. With my son I drank a small glass of wine most nights, he is 3 and scarily bright so I've obviously caused him no harm. I'm pregnant again and whilst I won't drink every night I will have one if I fancy it.

Anyone else agree with this?
Anyone know of anyone where moderate drinking has caused harm to a child?

[cafecito]

sorry I have bad case of flu,may need to revisit this when my brain is functioning properly

however- the main points are

GABA = increased Glutamate = very very very toxic

L-CAM protein meddling = very very very bad

'Scaffolding proteins' = not forming correctly, cell migration not occuring properly, cells transitioning at the wrong point leading to completely wrongly 'wired' brain

mitochondrial damage = cell death/damage

there are obviously many more mechanisms. The statistic of 1% is accurate, FAS is a spectrum and no doubt in 10 years time this will be much more widely understood and publicised.

The fact is that all these mechanisms of damage affect different bits of the brain at different times, so it's impossible to say 'after x weeks it's fine to drink' that's simply not the case. There is a potential for damage with as little as 1 unit at any point throughout pregnancy, often before people even realise they are pregnant.

[cafecito]

www.nofas-uk.org/

[JenaiMorris]

cafe, how does alcohol effect embryos (as opposed to foetuses) when they're still reliant on the yolk rather than the placenta?

Genuine question btw.

Fwiw I drank far too much with ds. I simply didn't understand the risks (13 years ago) and also it seemed so abstract. I often wonder how much damage it did - there is no way I'd do the same again.

[ExpatAl]

Zcos I meant that some people ARE affected by 1 unit of wine, therefore so is their baby.

[cafecito]

There are various mechanisms (will get back to you if you like, I feel a bit rubbish today cant think properly!) one of the main ones though is the neural crest development and migration of cells from it. It's a crucial crucial stage.

as an example., the purkinje cells in the cerebellum are there for motor coordination. Alcohol has a minimal effect during division itself (ie embryonically) BUT the presence of alcohol makes these cells especially vulnerable to cell death later on (at a fetal stage), same with other areas of the brain, there can be found an excessive level of cell death during migration from the neural crest.

basically there is no safe time to have alcohol which is why the safest guidance is to have no alcohol at all if you think you may become pregnant. I know for many of us this is just not going to happen, but even in that first month when we didn't know we were pregnant - damage can still be done.

[cafecito]

basically combination of gene expression and cell death, and increased susceptibility of later cell death

[JenaiMorris]

Bloody hell cafe, that's terrifying.

Thanks for answering - hope you feel better soon.

[ExpatAl]

This is conjecture though isn't it cafe? Where did you get your information from?

[LeBFG]

I would have thought you would need to be pretty extemely pissed (really high blood alcohol levels) for the teeny tiny developing embryo to be affected. If it is affected at this really early stage I would expect the pregnancy to abort as any disturbance at this stage of development would be catastrophic. In fact, isn't drinking related to miscarriage rate? Anyway, if you were still pregnant by the time the placenta is developing I would expect (from this logic) the baby to be fine (obviously, if mum then continued to drink lightly/abstain).

[CaptainVonTrapp]

I've always wondered about the safety of things like paracetamol on the foetus. We are assured its find during pregnancy. Is it really? Has someone checked? Anyone...

[LeBFG]

There are a few drugs like paracetamol and progesterone that have been used so widely and for so long that we can be reassured as to their safety (sources: random internet pages + OB assurance wrt progesterone - haven't looked into this in any greater depth as was reassured).

[cafecito]

no, it's not conjecture- those are the main mechanisms but there are another 5ish that primarily contribute to neurological damage in the embryo/fetus, and a couple more which cause heart defects. alcohol is the number one cause of intellectual disability.

[ExpatAl]

Okay, but can you send me the source of your information? It's my understanding that this is the hypothesis and research is underway but there is no absolute knowledge, hence why the guidelines differ.

[cafecito]

this would be the most current research findings from the leading research team (only research team on this) in the UK - like I said, in 10 years time we will be sick of hearing about this I'm sure. What I have said is absolute fact but don't want to say anything more detailed than that or will risk outing myself and I'd rather not do that.

[zcos]

hi expat I know that's what you were saying but that wasn't what I was trying to get at it was missing my point.

[ExpatAl]

What research team? You won't out yourself if you just quote the link to the research. You need to quote the research now because you've bascially said that women have caused their children terrible damage by having a drink two days before the child was conceived.

[ExpatAl]

I was reading an American FAS website that said binge drinking is 2 or more drinks in a hour. The fetal cell death is alarming said like that but we just don't know enough. And what about the research that found children of light to moderate children had a significantly enhanced vocabulary at 18 months?

[ExpatAl]

duh - children of light to moderate drinkers

[cafecito]

no, not that they have, but that they could have. Like I said before I posted that, I myself drank alcohol in both of my pregnancies. Many of us do unintentionally at the beginning before we know we are pregnant, and many of us continue to drink small amounts believing conflicting research that it won't harm the fetus. Some are affected, many are not. I could have caused my children terrible damage yes- but I didn't realise that at the time. It's up to each individual to decide what they want to do but in my opinion - 9 months is not a long time to go without a drink when compared with the potential for damage otherwise. The only safe amount of alcohol is no alcohol.

[LeBFG]

Ah, I think I can answer that Expat. I remember there was a link between drinking and maternal IQ. Many studies have that sort of confounding factor. The stuff cafe is talking about is FAS - which is interesting and higher incidence than I ever thought - but it seems obvious to me that fetal damage must happen on a scale i.e. the more you drink (or are suseptible to alcohol damage) the more damage is detectable. I don't believe we should be talking about FAS in the same paragraph as drinking 2 drinks during pg!

[Verekerlady]

I think it's great that is subject is being discussed so passionately. The cat fights are a bit extreme but it's good that people are discussing this and questioning advice and coming up with their own opinion. I am a strong believer that it is each individual woman's choice when it comes to her body and what she puts in it, pregnant or not. And as shown on this thread by many people, opinions change as people learn new information.

We're learning all the time about the human body and also about how resilient it is. I won't be drinking throughout this pregnancy, partly because of worries of FAS and partly because alcohol makes me really tired anyway! But each woman has the right to make her own decisions and long may that continue!!

[ExpatAl]

I wasn't asking a question leBFG. I was using it as an example. I know that cafe was talking about FAS, as was I.

[ExpatAl]

Sorry BFG, I sounded really up my own arse there.

[LeBFG]

That's OK Expat . I didn't take it that way.

[WeAreEternal]

I had no idea I was pregnant unil I was 19 weeks, and while I was not. Big drinker I did get drunk every other weekend or so.

After I found out I was pregnant I drank occasionally but not excessively, more in late pregnancy, and only the odd glass of wine and I don't think it did me or DS any harm, although if I had known I was pregnant earlier I wouldn't have drank at all in early pregnancy.
In my next pregnancy I don't think I will drink at all, but my lifestyle has change and I hardly drink at all anyway.