Controversial!!! Have/do you drink alcohol in pregnancy?

[DanniiH]

Hi mummies.

Just wanting to get some opinions from real people not a regulatory body.

Personally I don't see the harm in having a glass of wine when pregnant but guidelines say to have none. I'm sure we've all heard people say my mum drank lots and I turned out fine and this is usually true I'm sure. With my son I drank a small glass of wine most nights, he is 3 and scarily bright so I've obviously caused him no harm. I'm pregnant again and whilst I won't drink every night I will have one if I fancy it.

Anyone else agree with this?
Anyone know of anyone where moderate drinking has caused harm to a child?

[LeBFG]

It IS the logical conclusion but I disagree that this is a widely accepted and approved outcome for the majority of posters on MN. There is a reason why it is not legal to do so - think of the public outcry.

[LeBFG]

Mixy - I'll let SGB answer for herself .

[SamSmalaidh]

Even if you accept the foetus has some limited right to life after a certain point of gestation (which is probably the stance most people take) it does not follow that the foetus has any other rights that trump that of the mother.

[Mawgatron]

Crumby, you actually were judging people who drink every night/every week. And no one is flaming you for your choices, they are flaming you for implying other people should question why they are having children for doing things slightly differently to you. Can't you see the difference?

[CrumbyCrumbs]

I love the way we're in the wrong for disagreeing with drinking whilst pregnant, and aren't allowed to voice our opinion for fear of someone thinking we're "judging" them, yet people can make whatever assumptions they like about us for choosing not to drink.

And will people stop being so bloody ageist, my age has nothing whatsover to do with this conversation. And yes, not that its any of your business but I do indeed work with vulnerable young people and adults, some of whom have had babies born with FAS.

[Mixxy]

LeBF?g Answer for herself? Seems like you put the words in her mouth first. . Why stop now?

[JenaiMorris]

Mawg has hit the nail on the head.

Crumb, you age is relevant because we're cutting you a little slack for your youthful idealism and black and white view of things.

fwiw I cringe at some of the opinions on child rearing and parenthood I spouted in my pre-motherhood 20s.

[CrumbyCrumbs]

But that's just the point, I'm not in my pre-motherhood 20's, I have already got a son, he just happens to be an angel now. So don't talk to me like I'm some naive teenager who hasn't lived, I have just as much right to an opinion as someone 10 years my senior, just as if there was a 15 year old mother voicing an opinion on here she would have just as right to her view as the rest of you. You all chirp on about "rights" then you come out with some ageist comment like that!

[pinkbananabread]

Crumb - if all my assumptions about you are incorrect, then feel free to condemn my weekly glass of wine. In return, I will judge you for not breastfeeding. Pretty sure medical opinion is on my side, not yours.

[LeBFG]

By that reckoning, Jenai, we should be looking at the tried and tested wisdom of our mothers and grandmothers who I'm sure think our generation is full of youthful idealism too. What a font of wisdom they are!

[CrumbyCrumbs]

So now you're saying my son died because I didn't breastfeed... Except I did, and plan on doing so with this baby. Stop getting personal.

[JenaiMorris]

Fair point lebfg. Although my mother was indeed very wise; she hid her rolling eyes very well when I was rambling on with precious moments twaddle and my breastfeeding eulogies.

Crumb I am very sorry to hear about your son. I can't begin to imagine how that must feel.

[CrumbyCrumbs]

I think this should stop here. It is not gettibg us anywhere.

Some of us think a couple of drinks are ok.

Some of us think it isn't worth the risk.

Both are entitled to their opinion, both are obviously free to do whatever they want.

OP wanted to know our reasons why we thought this, and I am pretty sure we have voiced those more than once. Some people have turned this into a cat fight, which is not what is is supposed to be!

[parttimer79]

Wow I came on to comment on the original post but got embroiled!

I am 14 weeks and not drinking because even the smell makes me heave. No plans to drink unless I can stomach a sip of bubbly at a friends wedding when I'm 24 weeks. Incidentally baby also seems to hate the idea of caffeine as tea and coffee make me heave too.

But to put my 2 penneth in, although I wouldn't go as far as to say that risk in pregnancy is a patriarchal myth (unless I am having a very angry day), I do agree with bue that this policing and surveillance of pregnant women enrages me.
I am still the same intelligent, rational woman that I was before sperm met egg! Provide me with well researched, clear health information and then let me make my own decisions, as I am surely capable of doing.

Sanctimoniousness, whether from the NHS, other posters or randoms in the street does not sit well with me.

Not that I would imply any correlation between that kind of behaviour and reading the Daily Mail, I've not done the research yet...

[pinkbananabread]

Right, I?ve calmed down a little bit now and am going to leave this conversation. I shouldn?t have gotten so personal: apologies Crumbs.

Have healthy pregnancies all.

[JaquelineHyde]

Wow this has just got ridiculous and some of the attacks on posters are appaling.

I am currently 30 weeks pg and haven't touched a drop and don't intend to.

However, this is my choice and I am happy with it. I am sure anyone who has a few shandies whilst pg knows what the risks are/could be and are still happy with their decision. This is all anyone can ask for surely?

The only time I would suggest it was a problem would be if the woman in question felt like they had to drink because they just couldn't get through 9 months without having a drink. In my opinion this is the sign of someone with a drink problem and a completely different thread

[zcos]

Lebfg it was me that said about the 8 units a week I was quoting a study... what are you quoting.
katkoala what if you can't pump many babies will only take milk direct.

[katkoala]

zcos...I'll be sober for a hell of a lot longer...simples

[zcos]

you don't have to be drunk! and you would have to be very easily affected for 125m (1 unit of wine) to affect you in that way.

[ExpatAl]

Some people are though zcos. That's the point.

[zcos]

yes every body has to make their own decision... katkoala has said she will stay sober if she can't pump but I haven't been talking about getting drunk!

[cafecito]

[cafecito]

before I say anything, I see nothing wrong with a debate on this subject and it's bound to be a little emotive as a subject when it possibly affects every single one of us.

Secondly, before I come across as 'judgmental' - in my first pregnancy, I drank A LOT before I even realised I was pregnant. I'd been on holiday, with copious amounts of rum, before I found out. In my second pregnancy, again I had been drinking alcohol probably every day before I realised I was pregnant, and then - though I regret this now - I still had the odd glass of wine or g&t sporadically through the pregnancy. My DCs were not affected by FASD. So I'm not being judgeypants...

[cafecito]

I wondered why alcohol caused damage as it does. It's one thing saying 'it's a teratogen, it poisons, it's bad' but there seemed very little known about the mechanism of damage. And that is true, little is known about the mechanism of damage and this is still the subject of much research.

What is known is that there are about 9 main pathways of damage to the fetus.

Obviously we have indirect mechanisms too, through maternal support of fetus (placenta, etc)

[cafecito]

Alcohol is actually ethanol that is being ingested- C2H5OH. This is a teratogen itself. Its metabolism additionally releases products which are toxic.

Acetaldehyde is a toxic compound released from the metabolism of ethanol in the liber, which can accumulate in the brain. It causes death in certain groups of brain cells, and causes depletion in others, and reduced function in others.

Cell death can occur by necrosis -affecting surrounding cells also; and by apoptosis (a form of 'cell suicide')

In the example of apoptosis, this tends to happen when mitochondria are under oxidative stress (caused by alcohol + Calcium levels) - the process of apoptosis requires 'caspase' enzymes.
In the metabolism of alcohol, free radicals are formed which cause mitochondrial damage. Mitochondria store Ca++. The Calcium regulation is critical. The free radicals released affect mitochondrial permeability by damage so the mitochondria can break down, releasing Calcium and Cytochrome C. This leads to Caspase activation = cell apoptosis (and some necrosis)


During cell division, in a developing fetal brain, alcohol interferes with IGF-1 and IGF-11 (insulin like growth factor) by binding the receptors, and blocking the signalling function of the IGF-1 receptor. This means cell division does not proceed - it blocks central nervous system cell production ,and induces cell death by inhibiting IGF-1 receptor.

For example - in the brain you have Glial cells, which are non neuronal. These migrate (radial glia - known as 'scaffolding proteins') up through the brain and change into astrocytes. With the interference of alcohol, these radial glia become astrocytes prematurely. This leads to an abnorma positioning of cells within the brain itself.

Looking now at neurotransmitter systems - NTs help to organise the fetal CNS. Serotinin and Glutamate are crucial here. Glutamate acts with NMDA receptors. Alcohol reduces the number of NMDA receptors.
Serotonin is key for cortical development , promoting growth.

Excess NT activity leads to cellular excitotoxicity. This tends to be induced by Glutamate, and leads to neuronal death in the brain.

Glutamate + NMDA = Ca++ influx to the neuron. Excessive activation = Increased Ca++ accumulation in the neuron = necrosis and apoptosis in the brain.

Glucose uptake/transport is key in all cells, for NT/DNA/RNA production of developing fetal brains.

GLUT-1 - GLUT-7 are key - especially GLUT1 + GLUT3 in the brain. Alcohol exposure = decreased GLUT1 and GLUT3 receptors in the brain, and decreased gene expression.


And, crucially, the 'cell adhesion' molecules. CAMs. Ethanol itself interferes with L1 mediated cell adhesion. (L1-CAMs). This + altered gene expression = decrease retinoic acid

etc etc etc