Too late potty training!

[MotherGoose85]

Why do so many modern mums struggle with toilet training their children??
Thrity years ago (and yes we did have disposible nappies then) it was quite normal for children to be potty trained by two but these days many four year olds are starting nursery-school wearing nappies!!! Why do health visitors recommend that parents wait until children 'show interest' in the potty before attempting to train?? Are they on commision from the nappy manufacturers?! Potty training is not rocket science and there are many helpful books to guide parents through the process. I believe that the later it is done the harder it is, as by three years old children are more inhibited about their bodily functions and prefer to stick with the comfort of their nappy. Are parents just too busy these days or do they expect childminders or nursery-schools to do the job for them??

[Ilythia]

Only just come back to this, sorry biscuits, of course I was agreeing with you

Doh.

[glassescase]

I don't believe that help is irrelevant. It was a happy coincidence for me that the first few years of my children's lives coincided with a few years abroad. However I would not have done things any differently, as far as toilet training was concerned. Many generations of mothers, including my own, had no help and trained early; many still do. I do not consider they are/were insensitive or unkind to do so.
Maybe the OP, being of an older generation, wrote in a more direct way- as many speak, and it came across as scolding. I did not find it inflammatory at all.
Apology accepted.

[TheRealMBJ]

I am sorry that I assumed you were younger that they were, it was wrong of me to jump to conclusions and I apologise.

However, do you really, really, really believe that having help is irrelevant when it comes to raising small children, and particularly when teaching them a new skill when very young?

The OP's tone is inflammatory and does not take into account changes in attitudes to child-rearing or evidence that things are easier and kinder if left until the child shows signs of readiness (in some children this may very well be before their 2nd birthday - it is not perscriptive, rather intuitive and sensitive). She uses language that antagonises and is obviously aimed at 'getting a rise'.

Anyhoo - personally, I am a live and let live type of gal and if anyone chooses to potty train early, that is their business, and if other's choose to wait until their child shows signs of readiness, that is theirs. No need to get involved really.

[plupervert]

And here we are at Mommy Wars II....

That is why people objected to the tone of the OP, glassescase. There are ways and ways to discuss why potty-training has become later. The way it has been framed in the OP is very antagonistic, and puts pretty much all "modern mothers" on the "wrong side", which is unnecessary and simplistic (even facile - yes, I am a modern mother With Big Words And An Education - weep for my children! ... see how I have accepted the positioning?).

[glassescase]

I don't know why I'm bothering to answer you as you obviously have some sort of axe to grind.
However, one of them was about eighteen and the other 20. I was 30 something. So thats £25 you owe me.
I would have done exactly the same if I had been in England when the children were that age. The issue of help in that context is not relevant, it was, as I said, mentioned to indicate a different cultural perspective.

[TheRealMBJ]

intelligent girls who hade more experience of child-rearing than I did . May I ask how old these girls were? Bet you my last £50 they were adult women, and probably older than you were at the time.

Oh, and I know it is common for those working in certain countries to employ nannies. I'm a South African and my and most of my friend's parents had the help of nannies at sometime or other. Some of my fondest memories are of eating 'pap' with my hands sitting on the dusty ground outside out house with Anna. I was potty trained with her help at 22 months and AFAIK had no problems with bed-wetting or school accidents.

I am in no way casting judgement on the fact that you had one (oh, sorry 2) but rather that you would assume that your situation with 2 nannies to run around cleaning up mistakes and spending a huge amount of time helping with training your children, is the same as a mother without help either with the children or domestically.

[glassescase]

It is common for those working in certain countries to have a nanny. Actually, we had two. I mentioned the fact that she was African to indicate a different perspective. As for your last point, I did not say that she had no opinion. Both nannies were intelligent girls who hade more experience of child-rearing than I did. I was happy to discuss such matters with them and we agreed on our strategies. Now, oil on the hair- that was a different matter!

[TheRealMBJ]

Ah, but glasses you had a nanny, and not just any nanny, an African one.

Do you not think, that her lack of opinion on the matter may have had something to do with the fact that you were paying her wage?

[glassescase]

Ffs- why are you all banging on about the tone of the post??? Perfectly reasonable and non-threatening, IMO. Is no one allowed to express a different point of view?

[glassescase]

MissMiss
what a ridiculous post
"I chose not to reply previously..."
Do you think we are all waiting for you to post!

I agree with the OP to some extent. Many posters on here have problems with their children witholding poo for various reasons. I think starting earlier, before the child has become attached to it/afraid of it/ realised its potency as a weapon, could help.

Although my children are nowhere near 30, thay were both toilet trained early, with the help of our African nanny, who saw nothing odd about our ideas. I do not recall any trauma involved, or any accidents at school as a result.

[Brynn]

Agree with MissMississippi. The OP is trolling - ignore this thread and let it die. A better place for an OP of this tone is in the AIBU forums anyway.

[Meglet]

Having done a search the op has been banging on about this all week on MN.

[Meglet]

[TheRealMBJ]

Just under the big , black, bold Mumsnet Talk is a line

Talk: Customise | Unanswered Messages | etc...

There

[MissMississippi]

Oooh - MBJ, where is customise? I can't find it.

To the other posters. The OP is completely antagonistic and I chose not to reply previously, so as not to give the satisfaction of answering the ridiculous post.

[TheRealMBJ]

Just a friendly note to those of you struggling to keep the OP and biscuits straight if you click 'customise' at the top of the page you can choose to highlight the OP's posts (and your own) to make it easier to keep track.

[Clarabumps]

I must be a terribly lazy mother waiting on someone to come round and train my children then. Most of us are scared to bully a child into doing something they are not ready for and cause more harm than good but as long as the child is out of nappies by 10months then thats all that matters then eh??

[Biscuitsandtea]

Ah - I understand Plupervert - Glad my views are striking a chord :)

[plupervert]

Hang on, I think there was a mix up somewhere at the beginning, when some people started referring to the first objector (biscuitsandtea) as MotherGoose, whereas MG is the OP.

Biscuitsandtea, I wasn't having a go at you, but at the original post, which was pretty one-sided, unlike your very measured post, biscuitsandtea.

[plupervert]

So you don't think the tone of your OP was antagonistic? Not even with the comparison to 30 years ago, and the loaded phrase "Potty training is not rocket science"? I'm afraid the latter does come across as patronising, even if one overlooks the rest, which is not so much "tone" as showing a lack of sympathy for those in the "modern" day.

[Snuppeline]

I tried my dd when she was 18 month's with a month of wet & dirty clothes. She understood that I wanted her to go on the potty and she was happy to sit on it. But she wasn't physically able to feel that she needed to go before she was going. So she'd say "potty" with gusto as her wee was trickling down her legs. In the end I decided she needed to mature her physic a bit more so I waited another 6 months and hey presto she was ready and potty trained in a week. She's not yet dry at night but as she's approaching 3 now I'll deal with that soon.

Advances in nappy technology probably do allow parents to delay nappy training compared to previous generations but I still think these are, for the most part, parenting decisions. So not due to lazyness or work per se but as a decision taken when balancing the childs physical and emotional readiness with time of year and other events occurring in the family.

That said of course it is late for a 4 year old being in nappies still or for a 5 year old not being able to wipe their own bum etc but I can't think other than that they are few and far between and that some of those might even have some medical reasons as to why they can't get to a toilet in time.

[Amykins]

I actually meant to say, in my earlier post, that I agreed with "Biscuitsandtea". Silly me.

[sorbysedge]

you can come round and train mine anytime you like goosey. I'm not proud.

[Nagini]

mothergoose what age do you suggest children should be trained?

[Nagini]

I'm quite sure that every single one of use remembers a kid that wet themselves at school whatever age we are