Dec 08 Mums - Onwards and bloody well upwards!

[Beans36]

How's this? Thought I'd just press on with it!

[KiwiPanda]

RT I was an assistant producer at that point. Worked on Colin Jackson, Moira Stuart mainly and bits and pieces of various other ones. I ended up as the Caribbean specialist, hilariously.. My background is history so I did a lot of the original research. Which tragically involved numerous trips ..

[Beans36]

Hello! I'm here!
Had a friend to stay last night. We stayed up drinking and nattering til 2am. I am toooooo old for that! Then I woke for a wee at 5.30 and that was me done and up. Knackered. Mum came for lunch today, which was lovely. DD2 asked her where Grampy was and Mum said, "He's is heaven, darling". Made me want to cry. Still not 100% sure I can believe he's gone!

DD1 had a horrible fall today. She was hanging onto my finger, slipped and twatted her forehead on the corner of skirting board. She had a massive purple lump with a red line down the middle, but seems fine. Add that to her chicken pox spots and she's really not looking her best! Poor lamb. I cried when she fell. Horrific. Thankfully DH was back from his day with his mate, so he calmed us all down!

Need a drink now. Is it wine o'clock yet??

[McKayz]

Of course it is wine o'clock Beans.

Are we doing secret santa this year? Can't believe it is nearly November.

[Indith]

It is always wine o clock somewhere Beans. Poor dd1.

I wonder who I am related to? The family tree was done on the French side a while back and each branch of the family was give the book with lots of lovely photos. Didn't go back that far though. The oldest entry was from when one ancient ancestor went off and brought a Spanish woman back.

Ds2 working on top tooth number 2 now having given us 1 night of half way decent sleep. My poor nipple. Ouch ouch ouch ouch is all I can say. Feeding has involved a lot of gritting teeth. Urgh.

[KiwiPanda]

Indith my sympathies - DD2 is doing similar teething-related clamping with the odd bite (OW). Gets a firm "No!" From me followed by tortured-how-dare-you-howls-of-protest ...

Talking of family history, have I told/bored you all with the extraordinary tale of my aunt (my dad's sister) and how she discovered that my grandad was not, intact, her father ..?
I have a ten mile race today. Wish me luck!

[McKayz]

Anyone know anything about this 4 month sleep regression? I'm exhausted. DD has gone from sleeping all night to waking a few times.

I mentioned it to HV last week when she had her jabs and she suggested baby rice. Which I'm not doing at 17 weeks.

I'm shattered

[Indith]

Your HV is talking shit. Which I am sure you know already. Milk has far more calories that baby rice or anything else you could give so blah blah blah weaning makes no difference to sleep blah blah. Honestly that HV of yours needs some training!

sleep regression. There are 3 things it can be really. One is what is callled reverse cycling where she is so interested in what is going on during the day that she doesn't feed much because she is too busy so she makes up for it at night. The second is the old growth spurt so lots of feeding day and night. The last is a bit of a developmental leap so she is learning new tricks (you might not notice all of them, could just be her realising how her body works) so her brain is firing all over the place, neurons are making important connections and she just cna't switch off. She tries to go to sleep but instead finds herself practicing waving or something and when she goes into light sleep at night instead of going back over into the next sleep cycle she wakes up and can't go back to sleep. It is very frustrating. It passes but it can; last a while and end up rolling into the next growth spurt and teething and the next developmental leap.... . Your dd is such a good sleeper though normally that the chances are she will naturally go back to her usual sleep.

[Indith]

this is a good website for sleep related things. I find the statistics on how many babies don't sleep through rather comforting too!

[McKayz]

Thank you Indith. Yes I just ignore HV. I'm not sure why I actually asked her about it.

DD doesn't seem to feed as much during the day now as she was a couple of weeks ago. Also she sleeps most of the evening now and I always change her nappy just before I go to bed so I can try and feed her.

That website is very helpful.

[Indith]

Have you tried not waking her to feed when you go to bed? For some babies it helps but for some it breaks their long sleep stretch and causes more waking.

I expect it will pass soon enough though just like everything else :)

The sleep deprivation is horrible though, especially when you are not used to it. I think it is worse when you've been used to sleep!

[Rubena]

Just a quick one, but someone asked yes isn't the midwife / crew a legend! She did have help from a GP but I think he said the crew did most but luckily he was there at the end. Baby was about 28 weeks or something but cant remember for sure.. The diverted to Majorca. Gets nationality of Brit at plane reg there as far as I know.
Glad you came back RT that was a very naughty stunt to threaten another AN thread.
Right, I'm off in search of coffee....

[Indith]

Goodness 28 weeks! How scary, he must have been such a teeny tiny scrap of baby.

[KiwiPanda]

A friend of mine at work has just had (or his wife had) baby at 26 weeks. So so tiny. Doing well apparently but still, it's a long haul isn't it..

Kayz both mine went haywire at 4 months - lasted a while then settled down.
I think Indith has given great advice so just sending sympathy really! DD1 was terrible sleeper anyway but DD2 wasn't bad and after going crazy at 4 months settled back down into her "normal" rhythm again. I don't personally think there's anything you can do about it, but in a way thinking that sometimes makes it easier IYSWIM. You can drive yourself crazy with babies, can't you, trying to find a solution to something when the only solution is time..!

We went to a lovely Halloween party which morphed into a baby shower today. And I had a really great 10 mile race this morning which went brilliantly and which I really enjoyed so that was nice day. Vag how was your race? Deids don't lose your running mojo! It will be back!

[Honsandrevels]

Wow well done your colleague Rubes. It must have been such a high pressure situation. When J was in neo natal there was a baby born at 27 weeks. His mum came to the hospital with her waters breaking and she gave birth ten minutes later. She had no idea she was in labour. Pre term labour can be very unlabour like apparently.

Kiwi I'd like to hear that story!

Kayz Great advice from Indith. J is having a bizarre sleep blip - This too Shall Pass. Like Indith said I'd try not waking her before bed or try lifting her and feeding her asleep.

[McKayz]

Kiwi yes I'd like to hear the story about your Aunt.

I'm trying to do DHs tree as both sides of mine have been done by other people. FILs mum left his dad when he was born as her XH was violent. We've recently found out the marriage was bigamist and also that FILs dad married again afterwards despite them not divorcing.

DHs Gran is a very strict catholic and wouldn't divorce until the 1990's when she was told her XH could get everything when she died.

FIL has just found out he has half brothers and sisters and nieces and nephews.

[Indith]

Gosh Kayz! Must be very unsettling for them to find all that out.

I gave birth to triplets last night. All of them came out looking very much like ds2. In fact i think one of them was ds2. So 3 20lb ish sitting, crawling babies. It was a home birth too, no pain relief. I think I did very well to carry all that lot around and give birth to them. I have earned an extra slice of cake today.

[VagolaJahooli]

Congratulations Indith, gosh you must be tired after all that. More cake I say.

Kayz sorry about the waking, I'm with Indith & kiwi it will settle in time. I think HV feel they have to try to fix everything. Not sure who came up with the idea that a rice based cement would help, but lucky you're smart enough to ignore.

Race was brilliant Kiwi I was running witha bunch of friends who have only been running since spring. Two of them and I have formed a little running trio in the mornings and have been steadily getting them running a bit faster. They signed up to this 8km race and their original aim was to run the whole way. I managed to convince them they could do it in under 50 minutes so they agreed to stick with the pace I made them run at and try to do it in 48 minutes. In the end they did it in under 45 minutes!!! I was so chuffed to bits with them it was the most fun in a race ever I think. I knew from about the 2 km that they would do their time but from 4km onwards I could see they were going to do an even better time. I quite excited at this point so possibly ran a bit faster. Unfortunately in the last 500meters my breakfast ( I didnt want to miss hotel breakfast) started threatening to return so I pulled back a little so finished 4 seconds behind them but they both finished really fast and was brilliant at the end when I could tell them the time they did. I've been racing for ten years and that was the best race ever!

Boys on holidays this week but both sick today so quiet day for us. Watching prehistoric park on YouTube. Anyone with dinosaur crazy kids, this series is awesome.

[VagolaJahooli]

On family trees, while working in the community in north London based at Belize park I found out that on my dad's side of the family my great great grandparent came from the area I looked after and I used to go past the church they got married in almost everyday. Sadly we all knew their fate before I had even moved to the UK as it was well known in our family.

He was an engineer on a dam project in Turkey. They had 8 kids and all lived over there. Sadly both parents died of the plague or scarlet fever or something and as was the practice at the time their children were sent to the colonies and given to families as children/worker's, so not officially adopted. The eight were separated and sent as far as we know to Australia & Canada. My great grandfather (according to family legend) was about to get married and had taken on the name of Houseden as that was his 'adopted' family's name. Just before his wedding a sister who had been sent to Canada found him and told him his real surname. So he got married with that name. However, as the Houseden's had been a lovely family and had treated him really well (some orphans in those days didn't fair so well). He named his first son with the middle name Houseden and so it has carried on. My dad was the first son of that son, & my big brother & now my nephew have not only houseden but also the same first name. It is all in honour to the family who cared so well for our great grandfather.

[McKayz]

Well maybe it is over. She slept all night last night! I need to work on her going to bed at the same time as the boys. She will sleep next to me on the sofa all evening but so far wont go in her cot to sleep. She just cries.

Indith, congratulations on the triplets.
It has been a bit hard on FIL. All his life it has just been him and his Mum. MIL said he is finding it a bit strange knowing he has other family.

[VagolaJahooli]

Yeah I can imagine it would bring up quite mixed emotions. Quite unsettling really.

[Indith]

Hurrah Kayz!

Vag what an amazing story. The things people did to children back then without a second thought :( Yet how wonderful that he was loved and later reunited with his sister.

I too would like to get ds2 going to bed in the evening. It is very hit and miss and he still wakes loads. he doesn't always want to feed so it isn't a feeding to sleep thing, but he needs to be patted back to sleep or walked around. I can't yet pop him to bed and have him go to sleep so at bedtime if he doesn't feed to sleep I won't get him down until he is knackered and pulling his ear off and then can walk him around and he will go off and i can put him down. I'm just hoping that when top tooth number 2 finishes coming through we will have a bit of a break in things and we can get hom more settled. I don't mind feeding at night I honestly don't, but I could do without waking at 8, 8.30. coming downstairs because we cna't get him back to sleep. Back up at 10. feed at 11. Struggle to go back down. Back down at 1. Wake and patted at 1. Feed at 2. Unsettled generally between 3 and 5.30 thrashing around hitting me. Dh settles him at 6. Wake at 6.30 for the day. That is about typical for us! I don't get it tbh, he just really struggles to sleep yet he has always gone to sleep in a variety of ways so he isn't used to a particular thing (feeding, sling, patting, dh walking him around, even pushchair occasionally) but he jsut cna't seem to get himself off so I think he wakes between sleep cycles. When he wakes in the evening and screams to much we bring him downstairs he very obviously WANTS to be asleep. Oh well, it will pass It had just better pass before March! I can't even leave him to grizzle for 10 mins to try to nudge him into self settling because the child throws up at the slightest thing. He cries he vomits, he gags on food he vomits, milk catches at the back of his throat while feeding he vomits so leaving him really isn't an option!

I still remember the blissful week when he was 4 months old that he self settled. Fed in the evening, rolled over then chatted to himself for a bit and went to sleep. It was amazing. He jsut fell asleep wherever in the day when tired too and napped. It was jsut wonderful! Where is that baby?

I have wondered about putting him straight in a bed to see if that makes a difference? We have the side up on the cot because he is mobile but he does prefer being in bed. So I wonder about getting a bed (we will need one in a year or so anyway) and a bed rail and putting him in it? Then I can feed him in there in the evening. BUT he would be in with ds1 so if it doesn't work ds1 will get disturbed. Ho hum.

[RTchoke]

I am feeling awful today, really quesasy and nauseated. Usually I can get into a piece of work and it distracts me but not today. I just want to go home and cry but I can't face the Tube ride and I have important meetings this afternoon. Its such a shame as I had a brilliant weekend and felt so good yesterday that I thought I might have finished with morning sickness. I managed to host an early halloween party for 12 kids and 12 adults, complete with homemade decorations and themed snacks, and I actually enjoyed it. Anyway, today is very different. Its D1's arents evening tonight and I cannot imagine how I can go and not risk projectiling all over her class teacher.
 
Veg - what a very, very sad story about your GGGrandfather. Sad but also heartwarming because he found a great family. Did most of the siblings trace each other in the end?
 
Kayz/Indith/Hons - your stories of non-sleeping babies scare me. I am not sure I can cope with all that again. I have been mulling over going for a much more structured routine this time. Maybe even, ahem, Gina Ford. The thing is that I doubt I have it in me as I am (a) pretty disorganised and (b) to scared of cot death to leave a baby alone in a room for 12 hours at night + 4 hours of naps a day. The reason I am considering it is that a good friend had her third 12 weeks ago. She had not done routines before but after teh first week with no. 3 she was finding he chaos was too much so she started following GF. Her son was only a week old and I think therefore almost too young to cry loads when put down, although i think she left him to whimper a bit she certainly did not have to leave him screaming. Anyway he took to it and by 6 weeks he was sleeping through except for a dream feed and now at 12 weeks he does 12 hours undisturbed all night, an hour in teh mornings, two hours over lunch and a 45 min nap at 4pm. In between he is the calmest smiliest baby and her whole family is ticking along so happily. She has done all that while exclusively breastfeeding. It is a dream really. Maybe GF does not deserve the credit, maybe the boy was always going to be amazing, but if GF might be the reason then maybe I should give it a go. Controversial I know. Most of mumsnet would probably have me shot for even entertaining such a thought.

[VagolaJahooli]

RT I did the put them down 90Mins after they last woke up thing when ds2 was newborn, I think Beans suggested it, & it worked a treat. He always happily settledoff to sleep well in his little hammock cot and somehow when I put him down after his bath @ around 6 he would sleep for the night then (apart from feeds). Obviously this is harder to do if you have school drop offs etc to consider. If I had to put him down over a drop off time I would sling him for the walk to dS1's school. I guess it was a kind of an enforced routine but I certainly didn't force him to goto sleep he just did. Apparently if you wait until they show signs of being tired it's too late. That is where I think I went wrong with ds1.

[VagolaJahooli]

Indith as far as I know only the sister onlythe one brother. But when I was in Gallipoli visitng the war memorials, I was looking at the Australian senitaph which had names of missing soldiers presumed dead. One them had a double barrelled surname with my surname so I wandered if he may have been one of the brothers as my grandfather used both surnames in this way until he died.

[Indith]

RT don't beat yourself up.

A friend did Gina from day 1 with all of hers. I must say though there was a fair bit of screaming involved. They are all different though. You could set your watch by ds1 and he merrily went to bed awake from around 7/8 weeks old and dropped off and could be put down for naps etc a bit later on. Dd screamed to sleep but there were other issues there. Ds2 has just been messed up by school runs I think, It just has not ever worked out timings wise. If he has fallen asleep at home I've had to wake him or try to bundle him into a sling or car without waking and so on and so forth. My friend though has both her older ones at school so gets the full day at home with the baby and he sleeps like a dream, it is the nursery pick up in teh middle that screws it up!

They are all different though. As Vag said the 90 min thing is the key and that is kind of waht Gina is based on, it is about watching your baby and getting to know their cues and putting them down at the right times. Some will slot into routines and be like clockwork, others will vary more but if oyu get to know their cues you can still get tehm down when they need it. Ds2 varies, I know his cues, he just is usually tired at exactly the wrong times! Someone once said to me that routines are fine. Routines are great. It is when you attempt a schedule that you will start getting frustrated. So routine is "nap 90 mins after waking. Bath, story and feed before bed." but schedule is "7am wake up, nap at 8.30. Bath at 6.30pm feed at 6.45 bed by 7." you need to build the flexibility in there. Ds2 has a routine, once he is in pjs and grobag he is desperate for his bedtime feed, he certainly knows what is coming! I just wish he would stay asleep once he is asleep!

You will be fine :)

We have yet another party invite. Argh! This one is a triple party. Triple! I need to remortgage the house, we are up to 6 children to buy presents for now.