Theresa May to legalise Ivory trade?

[AFierceBadRabbit]

I'm horrified.
Are people really ok with this? Can this, as well as fox hunting, etc really just be glossed over?

I don't know what to say except I'm frightened of what we're becoming here in the UK :(

metro.co.uk/2017/05/21/theresa-may-drops-ivory-ban-from-conservative-party-manifesto-6651853/

[CherriesInTheSnow]

But cd that's a massively oversimplified example. From what I've been reading it is quite clear that the post 1947 ban is not effectively enforced at all. That means that modern day ivor from poached elephants is being sold under the guise of being "antique".

So no, of course not being able to sell a piece of centuries old ivory will not save an elephant alive today. But the slack laws mean the reality is this law facilirates the modern day ivory trade just as much as the antique trade. Thsee are also the ramifications of not going through with a blanket ivory ban I was talking about.

I also believe looking at the bugger picture that the ivory trade should be banned because of the attitude toward elephants it perpetuates in people involved or enthusiastic about ivory products as a whole.

[CherriesInTheSnow]

Sorry for the spelling errors I am at work and typing quickly - hoping the misspelled words are self explanatory.

[CherriesInTheSnow]

And regarding "nothing has changed"

The problem is it has been in tory manifesto's frI'm at least 2010 to ban the ivory trade and they have yet to go through with it. Now it was in the pipeline to finally go through with it and they have quietly decided against it despite the far reaching consequences this has to the modern day ivory trade. And if the status quo was as simple as the post 1947 ban being iron clad then maybe that would be okay, but it is not.

We are already one of the biggest exporters of legal ivory. We should be making progress. Also what is the relevance of saying China would be better off banning tiger balm etc? Of course that would be positive but it doesn't draw away from the steps they've taken in the ivory trade does it.

And saying things like it's just a better headline - no. It's a genuine contemporary issue and it is important to be aware of these u turn decisions when they were in the manifestos in the first place.

[SnakesandKnives]

"The problem is it has been in tory manifesto's frI'm at least 2010 to ban the ivory trade and they have yet to go through with it."

This is what makes it all so farcical. It's irrelevant whether it's in their manifesto as they haven't ever acted on it...and apparently not been pulled up on the fact they haven't. What the hell is the point of a manifesto then? Grrr.

Wrt elephants I personally think (only an opinion) that putting in a blanket ban would ONLY stop the non criminal/antique trade. As it stands it is globally illegal to kill elephants for Ivory and illegal to trade in new Ivory in most places. But it still goes on to a large degree. If those bans make no difference I fail to see why a new ban would. I have worked in this area and the number of people genuinely unknowingly dealing in stuff they shouldn't is vanishingly small.

[CherriesInTheSnow]

Agree snakes;

I do believe in the ban though on just purely a moral basis,to change attitudes and facilitate change. To put it another way - what good is clamping down on illegal trade when it's still so easy to sell ivory legally? We need to hAve a zero tolerance policy on poaching, and a great first step would have been to ban all domestic ivory trading IMHO.

[cdtaylornats]

There is absolutely no point in barring the sale of historic ivory. The cynic in me suggests China banning it is more a way to stop rich Chinese spending money in the West to repatriate artefacts.

What will happen is you are libel to be fined when you try to sell grandads dominoes.

[Valentine2]

I'm more scared that she seems to be able to express these views freely and feel safe on the knowledge that it will not make her less popular

^ this. And the fact that she keeps getting away with it too.

[olliegarchy99]

I give up trying to educate the left leaning MN
she has not 'dropped' anything from the manifesto - it was NEVER in the manifesto and Cameron was the last PM to include it in the manifesto

[olliegarchy99]

www.alistair-burt.co.uk/index.php/campaigns/545-uk-ivory-trade

[lucydogz]

good post ollie but the 'boo hiss the tories are horrid' brigade just aren't listening.

[Room101isWhereIUsedToLive]

Maybe the total destruction of all ivory products should be what we are working towards. There are loads of beautiful objects made of ivory true but the story behind them is ugly and perhaps in these more enlightened times, we should be putting emphasis on the destruction of beautiful creatures that had to happen in order for these objects to be made.

[Nyx]

Excuse me, it's not just the left leaning among us who have been discussing a ban or a proposal for a ban being 'dropped'. But of course right wing leaning posters are never wrong?

[Nyx]

Perhaps you should educate all of us, Ollie.

[CherriesInTheSnow]

Ollie Cameron's manifesto was only 2 years ago??? Is that now ancient history because May toOK over as prime minister?

Oh but do please educate me some more

[mummabearfoyrbabybears]

Good grief. Can't people read any more??? They are dropping the plan to ban ALL Ivory sales. I.e. Antiques at auction. They are not making ivory legal. Same as the fox hunting. Some people in the UK think the fox hunt ban is unfair. It was a huge part of their lives and traditions. What Teresa May is saying is she will allow a free vote on the matter. A free vote! You know, because we live in a democracy not a fucking communist country!!! Stupid Labour supporter.

[CherriesInTheSnow]

The point is the manifesto is for the whole party. If it was in the last manifesto, and it is not longer in the party's manifesto under May, it has been dropped from the party's manifesto.

[CherriesInTheSnow]

mumma the reason the drop of the blanket ban is controversial has already been discussed on this thread.

But no you're right the stupid labour supporters should all just crawl back into council houses right? Why should we have an opinion on cruel outdated practices involving the exploitation of animals? It just be because we don't understand the finer things in life....

[Nyx]

Who's a stupid labour supporter?

[lucydogz]

Perhaps because the negative opinions on this have been generally framed in the terms of how frightful tories/TM are.

[cdtaylornats]

Classic MN if Teresa May saved a baby from a dog attack, the MN people would see "Tory hurts pet"

[mummabearfoyrbabybears]

Cherries we should have opinions on it because ITS A FREE COUNTRY!!!! I don't live in North Korea!!!!

[Nyx]

Oh CD I know, poor old TM is just so misunderstood...!

[lucydogz]

a bit far off the ivory trade isn't it?
also, how do you feel about Labour fucking over the NHS by tying them into PFI agreements, often on disadvatageous terms, that meant that colossal amounts of their budgets go on repayments. Not forgetting the £12bn wasted on an IT system that never worked. I can't see Labour as the saviour of the NHS somehow.