Republican nominees Mr Trump vs Ms Fiorina – whats the odds on the latter?

[Isitmebut]

In Australia they have a new PM with extensive private sector experience (an ex Merchant Banker no less) and pretty much the same is happening in America as the public still want very bright people looking to solve complex issues of the 21st century, but are looking to reject career politicians.

On that subject I saw on the news today that an ex U.S. corporate CEO Carly Fiorina did very well on her first debate appearance last night and that does not surprise me, as a few years back, especially around U.S. elections (that fascinate me) I used to have on the TV in the background the CNBC Business programme early morning show – which had good banter between the three hosts and great business/political coverage – and Ms Fiorina was a frequent guest on the show giving her views on all sorts of issues.

Due to Fiorina’s knowledge, views, humour, apparent charm and silky calm voice, I always used to stop what I was doing to listen to her, so I’m not surprised that she did well in that Republican bear pit yesterday as although she comes across as disarming - you felt that she didn’t get to be a CEO of a major company if she couldn’t bite the arse off a grizzly bear for breakfast if she WANTED to.

One to watch, and what if the next U.S. general election would be decided from two women candidates; either Republican Fiorina or Democrat Clinton?

Who won the GOP's debate? Hint:The one in the dress
www.cnbc.com/2015/09/17/who-won-the-gops-debate-hint-the-one-in-the-dress.html

CARLY FIORINA

Barely sliding into the main-stage competition, the ascendant Fiorina was the clear-cut victor of the evening, just as she was in her first debate. The former Hewlett Packard CEO was treated to the warmest and most consistence applause on Wednesday night. Moreover, she struck a perfect balance of sophistication and toughness when it came to handling questions about (and attacks from) Donald Trump.

[Isitmebut]

Back to the theme of the OP, for those that follow ‘trends’, as one candidate drops out (Scot Walker), Trumps popularity is trending downward, as Carly Fiorina’s is trending up.

Early days, but interesting times for those that would support a woman, the first woman, as the U.S. President.

Sept 21st Poll: Fiorina rockets to No. 2 behind Trump in GOP field
edition.cnn.com/2015/09/20/politics/carly-fiorina-donald-trump-republican-2016-poll/index.html

Carly Fiorina shot into second place in the Republican presidential field on the heels of another strong debate performance, and Donald Trump has lost some support, a new national CNN/ORC poll shows.

The survey, conducted in the three days after 23 million people tuned in to Wednesday night's GOP debate on CNN, shows that Trump is still the party's front-runner with 24% support. That, though, is an 8 percentage point decrease from earlier in the month when a similar poll had him at 32%.

Fiorina ranks second with 15% support -- up from 3% in early September. She's just ahead of Ben Carson's 14%, though Carson's support has also declined from 19% in the previous poll.

[Isitmebut]

claig ... this has been a slice of life, but I must go now, thanks.

[Isitmebut]

The halving of the Conservative Party’s membership under David Cameron is symptomatic of a Tory party

And UKIP have how many party members that translated to exactly how many Westminster seats in 2015, when the Conservatives won a parliamentary majority despite so many ex Conservative falling for UKIP's lies/rollocks - yup, yup, yup, the Conservative project REALLY "failed", as UKIP have all those 'members' and one solitary Westminster seat. Bless.

After the EU Referendum and no core modernizing from their 3 core polices, UKIP won't even have that in 2020 - as Farage would have tried for the NINTH time to join the 'establishment' he so covets and would have failed again.

(Banjo)

[claig]

'So tell me, over the 25-years of UKIP, what are the core policies/values over and above the three I mention?'

I'm not going to give you a political education for free. Use your public library to find out the basics.

'Tell me I'm wrong and why.'

You're wrong because you don't understand the basics.

[claig]

Have you taken your meds? You are losing it even more than the state you are usually in.

[Isitmebut]

Clueless and politically naive.

So tell me, over the 25-years of UKIP, what are the core policies/values over and above the three I mention?

Re Tony Blair trying to modernize, the word is TRY as although there were some reforms i.e school academies, Min Wage, Smoking restrictions, more drinking hours - the CORE policies were under Brown's remit and those core policies were not that different to the 1970's and 1980's - the growing of the State in our lives, leaving behind the private sector, higher taxes etc etc etc

Tell me I'm wrong and why.

[Isitmebut]

I would not support Trump or Farage as what you call outspoken, I think is a gimmick to mask the lack of depth/detail in their policies - which fool a lot of voters that prefer their politics in short soundbites.

Any fool of a politician can try and be outspoken when not in government and will have consequences, and targeting a certain 'red-neck' vote.

Can you hear the banjo playing in the back ground?

Ooooo weeeeeee dicky di-do, lets hunt pa.

[claig]

No wonder you don't like Trump and Farage as the people do, you haven't got the foggiest what is going on.

[claig]

'I am that simple in my politics'

No, you're simpler.

'So I repeat 'modernizer' means feck all to that same jam tart'

That is why learned BBC journalists write books called "Tony Blair - The moderniser" I suppose? And that is why learned Telgraph journalists write

"Admit it, Mr Cameron. Your modernisation project is dead and buried

The halving of the Conservative Party’s membership under David Cameron is symptomatic of a Tory party well aware that its leader’s early promise is becoming a failed governing project. It seems, however, that this disaffection is not confined to the grassroots but is spreading to Parliamentary benches"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10474951/Admit-it-Mr-Cameron.-Your-modernisation-project-is-dead-and-buried.html

'Any other UKIP policies 'modernize' both the BNP and Farage's UKIPs core policies, no?'

Clueless and politically naive.

[Isitmebut]

What it is is spelt out in the book that has inspired your political thinking, but which you have obviously failed to understand - "Tony Blair - The Moderniser".

I have given you several key/core Conservative values on the other page, that I will always agree with so will determine how I vote - no book, no political 'ism', I am that simple in my politics.

Re Blair, now look at their 13-years of a much larger state/employment, higher taxes, pro EU wherever, fall in manufacturing employment before the crash, education results in the basics etc - all diametrically opposite Conservative policies and hardly 'modernized' from Old Labour.

So I repeat 'modernizer' means feck all to that same jam tart. especially when trying to apply it cross party, especially when a party is implementing similar policies than before.

So UKIP's core policies just 'modernize' the BNP's core policies, by putting Farage's silly 'cheekie chappie' face on them - as what is policy different?

Any other UKIP policies 'modernize' both the BNP and Farage's UKIPs core policies, no?

[claig]

'YOU (oh no) are a SERIAL modernizer'

Don't be absurd. Is there a single moderniser on the planet that supports Trump and Farage? Do Blair, Mandelson, Cameron and you support Trump or Farage? Of course you don't because you are modernisers.

[Isitmebut]

Claig ... what are you not getting, if UKIP only have those 3 core policies you clearly stand for and are pretty clear cut, anything other than those policies are 'modernizing' the UKIP policy portfolio - so in continuing to support a flip flop political party that changes policies more times a month than Farage changes his skiddies - YOU (oh no) are a SERIAL modernizer.

(I swear if you are a robot I'll get you to 'tilt', like Vger on Star Trek)

[claig]

UKIP's initial pro HS2 policy was not what you call a "core polcy", it was probably something that was pushed for by the ex-Conservatives in UKIP, some of whom were responsible for a manifesto that Farage correctly described as "drivel". They tried to oust Farage, the Establishment tried a coup against him, but he's back and the game is on again.

You are a moderniser and proud, the opposite of a conviction conservative, but you don't even understand what modernisation is. It is not changing policies. What it is is spelt out in the book that has inspired your political thinking, but which you have obviously failed to understand - "Tony Blair - The Moderniser".

[Isitmebut]

claig .... when going on and on about 'modernised' policies about other parties, you currently support (Corbyn tomorrow?) a UKIP that has had 3 core policies for over 20-odd years - so any policies flip flopped between general elections e.g. 3 electrified train lines in 2010, no HS2 in 2015, is 'modernizing' those core policies, no?

So either you are a rather shallow excuse for a voter who can only cope with 3-core policies or you accept the UKIP modernizing that goes on between general elections, which is it?

[claig]

'Do you only believe in UKIP's core no EU, no immigration, no burka policies, or do you have more 'modernized' depth? As that is what you are accusing me off.'

I don't understand what you are trying to express with that.

You don't understand the appeal of UKIP - you seem to think it has something to do with burkas - because you are not a real conservative and are a moderniser which is why what Farage says is an alien concept to you - it is real traditional conservatism, just like Trump who is currently way ahead of the Establishment Republican candidates in America for the exact same reason.

[claig]

Here is a progressive, a moderniser like you, thinking that Trump won't scrap the Establishment's cliamte change deals. I think they are kidding themselves. Trump wants to appeal to real conservatives, not modernisers, and there isn't a real conservative across the planet that believes in rooftop wind turbines. The game is up, the modernisers are on the way out, the people are back!

"The establishment has now accepted the reality that Donald Trump could win the GOP nomination — and could even possibly … become the next president of the United States. [Memo To Self: Adjust meds.]

Yet while narcissistic showman Trump has a long history of saying nonsensical things about climate change and clean energy, narcissistic President Trump is exceedingly unlikely to blow up any global climate agreement that comes out of Paris for two big reasons.

First, the Paris accord is almost certain to be a very good deal for us (as I discussed here), and Trump sees himself as a great deal-maker above all else. Second, Trump understands the value of “brand” — and nothing would ruin his brand (or this country’s) more permanently than to be the guy (or country) who killed the world’s best (and maybe only) chance of getting onto a path that could avoid catastrophic warming and centuries of misery for billions of people.

If, as Trump said Sunday, he won’t torch the Iranian nuclear deal, then he isn’t going to burn any Paris accord — and that means he’d have to honor the EPA’s Clean Power Plan, since that is essential to the U.S. side of the deal.

Trump Is For Real
Let’s take all of these points in order. First, the establishment spoke through one of its major mouthpieces — Bloomberg Politics Managing Editor Mark Halperin, and author of best-selling campaign books like Game Change:

We’ve reached a turning point with Trump, the major establishment campaigns of both parties now think Trump could win Iowa, and most of them think he could win the nomination, and a significant number think he could win the White House."

thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/08/19/3692279/president-trump-paris-climate-deal-epa/

Go The Donald! Go the people!

[Isitmebut]

Have some honesty and some shame. You are a moderniser and proud.

I repeat it means feck all to a jam tart, when core Conservative policies, not the Labour ones practised for 13-years that were unable to dig the UK out of their own national/annual budget deficit debt, unemployment, housing, real earning falling shit-stack - in the main due to their unbalanced economy even before the financial crisis hit.

Do you only believe in UKIP's core no EU, no immigration, no burka policies, or do you have more 'modernized' depth? As that is what you are accusing me off.

[claig]

'Steve Hilton, the Prime Minister’s director of strategy and ‘green guru’, is the latest person to admit to doubts about climate change.

‘I’m not sure I believe in it,’ he announced at a meeting of the Energy Department, prompting one aide to blurt out: ‘Did I just hear that correctly?’


www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066720/David-Camerons-green-guru-Steve-Hilton-reveals-doubts-global-warming.html

What a shower. There is no doubt with real conservatives like Trump who tweeted

'This global warming bullshit has got to stop'

and when Trump wins, if he doesn't drop out, then all across the world, modernisers will scramble to change their position and pretend they never believed in rooftop wind turbines as they follow the lead of the President of the United States. Sanity will have returned, modernisers will be finished and real conservatives and the people will be back.

Go The Donald!

[claig]

'clear due to your yo-yo political alliances your sole objective is to promote political instability within the UK.'

I think your febrile imagination is slightly overestimating my capabilities. I support Farage, like 4 million other wise people. I don't like modernisers like tens of millions of others. That's the limit of it. I'm with the people be that in America with Trump or Farage in England.

'I stand behind every core Conservative value'

Have some honesty and some shame. You are a moderniser and proud. You want me to spell out why Heffer and millions think that Cameron is not a conviction conservative. That means you don't know and are a moderniser and proud.

'As some of the ones recently bolted on are arguably stolen from the Labour Party, I have no problem with that.'

Of course you don't. The only problem you as a moderniser have is that there are not enough modernising policies and a rofftop wind turbine on every council building.

'And lastly, if Cameron wanted to fit a wind turbine to every cows arse to harness methane, I'd support/not oppose that - as long as he kept the core values/policies.'

He is probably champing at the bit to do that, but wiser heads, real conservatives, conviction conservatives have probably advised him not to put that in the manifesto lest it drive away another 20% of the remaining conservative base to Farage and the People's Army.

[Isitmebut]

claig ... if not clear before, it is now clear due to your yo-yo political alliances your sole objective is to promote political instability within the UK.

"Modernizer" when talking about core values of a political party, means feck all to a jam tart.

I stand behind every core Conservative value you apparently voted for that establishes a strong society, economy and country - and smaller 'bolted on' policies do not detract from those proven policies, that whether in 1979 or 2010, will mean that the Conservatives will leave a stronger country with better prospects than the one they inherited.

As some of the ones recently bolted on are arguably stolen from the Labour Party, I have no problem with that.

If we can afford to be Green and not build nuclear power stations, I'd be OK with that, but as always, I believe our government has to be pragmatic taking in current and future problems that will affect our every day lives.

And lastly, if Cameron wanted to fit a wind turbine to every cows arse to harness methane, I'd support/not oppose that - as long as he kept the core values/policies.

Meanwhile YOU cannot support UKIP's values, as they don't have any outside the EU, immigration and the burka, so policies flip flop between the red and blue vote, depending on who he is targeting.

[claig]

'Then did you get special 'red card' instructions to so strongly promote the Tory and UKIP free market policies anti-Christ, Corbyn?'

What are you trying to express? Where did you learn your English, if it can be charitably called that? Is this "moderniser" English? I prefer traditioanl English, real conservative English because I don't talk "moderniser" like you. I'm not fluent in Blair and Cameron, I prefer straight-talking Trump and Farage.

'I have no interest reading others probably talking about NON core Tory values - when every party has to adapt to the times/economic conditions.'

Of course you haven't, because you have no interest in the truth. That goes without saying as we have already established that you are a moderniser.

[Isitmebut]

Then did you get special 'red card' instructions to so strongly promote the Tory and UKIP free market policies anti-Christ, Corbyn?

Now we get the reams of quotes from other people; if as an ex Tory YOU cannot look at my basic list of Tory core values and tell me what has changed, I have no interest reading others probably talking about NON core Tory values - when every party has to adapt to the times/economic conditions.

[claig]

'welcome back to the Conservative fold comrade, we'll expect your vote next time.'

No chance, card-carrying socialist moderniser, I'm in the real conservative fold with Trump and Farage, I'm not a moderniser, I don't have a rooftop wind turbine like you or Cameron.

[claig]

I don't suppose you read real Conservatives like Archbishop Cranmer or Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail, you probably study the book "Tony Blair: The Moderniser" to form your ideas.

"Heffer: Cameron is 'not a conviction Conservative'

Writing in his new megablog RightMinds, Simon Heffer articulates succinctly what many of us already know."

archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/heffer-cameron-is-not-conviction.html

[Isitmebut]

Farage (not you) who tried to be a Conservative MP 8 times and failed says that Cameron allowed in immigration, but then says while we remain in the EU, we have no choice.

Farage (not you) says our defences have been slashed, when for decades they have never been better equipped, Cameron alone stands 100% behind renewing Trident and the reduction in number has been due to the under equipped but over spent defence mess Labour left.
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/374669/Labour-over-spending-leaves-74-billion-defence-deficit

So as you apparently can think for yourself, if thats all you have got on core Tory values, welcome back to the Conservative fold comrade, we'll expect your vote next time.