EU Elections 2014; time to finally vote for the BEST MEP candidates?

[Isitmebut]

To most people in the UK the European Elections in May 2014 will either be a big yawn, a chance to protest about Europe, or chance to protest about UK domestic policies – and if recent turnout figures of 38% in 2004 and 35% in 2009 are a guide, it will be apathy that determines your constituencies MEP’s.

But how many people are aware that they may get a say in our membership of the E.U. - and that whether we stay ‘in’ or ‘out’ of the EU - they are sending their regional representatives to Brussels on huge salaries and expenses, averaging around £182,000 a year.

Indeed, one senior UK MEP who shall remain nameless, but is still in office, told the Observer in May 2009 that he had already claimed close to £2 million just in expenses, way back then.

So what I have trouble getting my head around, is just how expensive the protest vote can be, not just in monetary terms, but also in the quality of muppet, of any political party, we send over to Europe to represent out interests.

So while I ‘get it’ that in the past, a EU membership protest vote usually meant that the town fruitcake could get the taxpayers jolly to heckle a foreign bureaucrat, or two, on your behalf, but to but to reiterate the point, and a similar shock could await the independence referendum in Scotland, what happens if there was a surprise ‘yes’ vote and we are being represented by a bigger bunch of half wits, on far bigger remuneration packages, than the usual suspects in Westminster?

So IF/WHEN an E.U. Referendum is guaranteed by law, on every practical level, isn’t it far better to have VOTED for the best MEP candidate within a constituency, to PROMOTE the interests/views of that constituency, REGARDLESS of which UK political ‘tribal’ colours they wear – rather than take pot luck that around 37% of the voters get it right?

Remember no one party can wave their expensive MEP magic wand and GUARANTEE that the UK leaves Europe, as only a parliamentary majority in the house of commons of 326 seats, against the ‘never will leave’ political party’s, could even BEGIN the process of changing the necessary laws.

Isitmebut the EU has morphed from a useful Common Market of several large industrial trading nations to an ever larger expensive and inefficient Federation of Europe, that needs to change to be internationally competitive.

But whether it changes or not, ‘the people’ have to be trusted to have their say, and the only practical way I can see that EVER happening, is via an all party politically binding Referendum in 2017.

What are your thoughts?

[flatpackhamster]

Isitmebut

Flatpack…I give facts, you talk about windmills, let the readers decide.

You give opinions.

The Conservative (and Cameron’s) view on the EU is clear, the previous Common Market before this Federal Europe nonsense that mainly happened from the late 1990’s, was fine and they would like the UK to remain within a REFORMED EU, with less of the excesses we all know about. Keeping up so far?

That view is arrant nonsense. The EU is unreformable. It is not interested in reform. It has a clear purpose and that purpose is not compatible with any pink fairy-dust pipe dreams of reform.

To achieve a 'reformed' EU you must gain the unanimous votes of all the EU member states. They all have to agree to go through the process of reform. That isn't going to happen. Reform is not an option. You are in or you are out. There is no negotiation to be done here. Cameron either doesn't know this - which makes him a fool - or he does, which makes him a liar.

As for that last paragraph, you are talking complete rollocks, as the polls show a narrowing to the only other party that will form a government in 2015, and as for our 2010 manifesto, all our core beliefs that turned around the UK economy in 1979 are current policies – and if any due to the Lib Dem coalition had to be ‘traded’, that was the price of Ukips votes in 2010, on a general election manifesto Farage now calls “drivel”.

If only that was true. Cameron is no Thatcher. If Cameron were a Thatcher, the Tory Party wouldn't be down to its last 100,000 members.

[Spinflight]

Isitmebut..

"all our core beliefs that turned around the UK economy in 1979 are current policies"

That only London matters and the rest of the UK can be turned over to tourism? That the rich getting richer equals economic growth? That mass, uncontrolled, immigration is good for the UK? That under 25 year olds should be stripped of their rights? That Grammar schools are only fit for the rich? That sahm are scroungers who should be forced to work as well? The taxing the super rich hinders 'economic growth' but cutting benefits is merely punishing the workshy....

We all know what the tories stand for. The nasty party according to your own Home ( London ) secretary.

UKIP is predominantly working class, guess who we'll be looking after...

[Isitmebut]

Spin……let me try and answer your points, as you don’t seem to understand the record of those you say your non policies are the answer to AND what Cameron is currently doing within the EU.

On EU reform, let us remember that the EU is an unsustainable socialist monster that was allowed to grow during ‘the good times’, and where hugely expensive bureaucracy and red tape will tie one hand behind the back of our businesses in a competitive world. Where unlike low business/personal taxes Far East countries, European States offered huge pensions and social security unsustainable in ‘the good times’, will now have to be ‘reformed’.

Look my point is, the EU needs to reform or slowly die under its own regulatory and financial burden – so if they don’t want to reform fast enough, then so be it – but whatever progress Cameron makes with near bankrupt Staes that need to save money e.g. like already reducing the EU budget, gets put to the people WHO THEN DECIDE.

On Tory members, what is this preoccupation of Ukip with their Membership over political substance, like thick football fans bragging down the pub? The Conservative Party has over 300 parliamentary seats, UKip has a big fat ZERO, and was around 26,000 votes across around 20 key marginals in getting a parliamentary majority. I have been a Conservative voter from way before Farage became an oil trader, but I would NEVER become a Member, what is the point, I can do more damage to Ukip half-wits on the internet, than sitting in a Tory Office going ‘ya, ya, wine bar’. If I’d cared, I’d look up how many of the old farts that were members have died over the past few years, but parliamentary seats count, and we’ll see in 2015.

On Tory policies, silly micro issues just prove Ukip posters ignorance of BIG PICTURE stuff that defines a successful country. Personal income tax rates in 1979 started at 32p, then 68p I believe. Tax on unearned income (from investments) was 90 odd % and should any business manage to make a profit in the pre Thatcher economic death spiral of 20% inflation/wages, the Corporate Tax Rate was 50% - and all these come down over Conservative administrations to stimulate MORE tax growth, so they are the PROVEN party of lower taxes for all.

Re the taxes for the rich, they are paying MORE under the Coalition, than Labour in 2010 OR Ukip, who proposed a Flat rate income tax and national Insurance of 32p, to help the oil traders of the world. The raising of top rate tax to 50p after 13-years in office by Labour, they budgeted would bring in £4-5 billion, brought in £100 million – and as one of the highest rates in the world, discouraged inward investment who’s company decision makers would have to pay it.

As for the size of the tax sapping State, which should be around 40% of any country’s economy but became 54% under Labour, the Tories from Thatcher on have believed it should be as big as it NEEDS to be – so ‘the people’ keep more of their own earnings in order to save or afford their own choices e.g. private pensions.

Conservative administration records show, they are PRO lower taxes & increased savings and ANTI uncontrolled public sector hiring (1 million from 1997 to 2010) anti uncontrolled/unsustainable rising benefits through a boom in employment, anti uncontrolled immigration, anti dumbing down childrens education, anti 90% of police at any time sitting on bums in stations, anti C.Diff germs in hospitals, anti annually living beyond this countries means, anti National debt and anti socialist politicians who believed in ALL of the above.

Those basic economic building blocks, proven to grow an economy, is what Conservative politicians have proven whilst in office, and that clearly uniformed Ukip ‘members’ ridiculously call ‘letting the nation down’, while without even one seat in Westminster, amateurishly and opportunistically, flip flopping policies to pretend they are an ‘alternative’ to Conservative success stories.

Look, I don’t agree with everything the Tories do, BUT IN REALITY, come 2015 either the Labour Party or Conservative Party will form the next government, and if people chose to vote Ukip and let in Labour, then so be it – but they should remember than in 2010, unlike 1979, no one saw where tax rates were going to go to fund fat government and ever growing benefits etc, Labour despicably chose to hide the increase taxes (and some cuts) they promised in their 2010 manifesto.


But this has all has nothing to do with this thread and the MEP elections in April this year; the fact is Ukip cannot bring the UK out of the EU so is promoting a lie to get votes.

[Isitmebut]

P.S. What is clear to me, is that both politicians and posters on boards like this, are peddling mistruths and misinformation.

From Miliband hypocritically blaming the coalition for the problems left by New Labour, with only huge debts to fix them, to Ukip pretending that they are an alternative to anything, including the false claim that votes for them will bring the UK out of the EU.

What I am looking to do is STRENGTHEN political debates by providing facts and figures that float my boat. Frankly in most parts of the UK, where Labour could take each families first born and the parents would still vote for them, I’m not looking to influence who people vote for – but at least know the truth when voting for a party, and why voting is so important, as apathy can let a numpty in to represent your area, by default.

[Spinflight]

You miss the point, liblabcons are all the same as they just rubber stamp EU directives ( their MEPs) and rubber stamp those directives into law in Parliament.

[Isitmebut]

No, you are missing the point of this post; we are currently in the EU and as the Lisbon Treaty signed by Brown ensures most EU laws are UK laws, by law – so whether the Lib Dems play with a rubber stamp, or rubber anything else, this is where we are and there is NOTHING UKIP CAN DO ABOUT IT, by law.

The correct role of a MEP in my opinion, is to CURRENTLY try and use their position within the EU parliament to make push for sensible reforms to reduce the uber fat, bureaucratic, inefficient, unsustainable, state mentality that virtually every member state should want, as it costs each country less and makes them more competitive in the world.

This is important, as the ONLY WAY the UK will come out of the EU, is via the Referendum the Conservatives want, and only political party that CAN force one through. Otherwise we BY LAW will remain a filly signed up EU member.

So the LAST thing we need is MORE Ukip MEP’s; because:

Ukip are so anti EU they are in no ideological position to achieve anything of benefit to the UK now, or if we have to stay in

Ukip can not bring us out of the EU, despite their implied claims

Ukip MEP’s are therefore not fit for purpose in representing the UK, so therefore less useful to this nation than a very expensive, taxpayer’s, chocolate tea pot

In conclusion, for the sake of the UK, it matters not who you vote for in April, as long as it is NOT Ukip – and as a similar 28% Wythenshawe electoral turnout will allow Ukip a seat by default – people need to vote.

[Spinflight]

Lol,

Name me these labour, tory ( other than Daniel Hannan who I like) and libdem MEPs who are anything but rubber stamps?

Every one of them costs us £1.79m per year, so thats £500 million over the last five years for liblabcon rubber stamps....

UKIP in the EU parliament, where they have no power, are arguably a more effective opposition than the useless backbenchers in our own parliament.

[Isitmebut]

Spin…you are still not getting it, what is the cheap heckling in the EU parliament going to achieve for the UK?

Camping out side and insulting everyone entering the building would be just as effective, cheaper and allow real UK MEP’s who can constructively work the system, to try to change it, should Labour form the next government here in 2015.

Does Farage get to sit down with the leaders of Germany, France and other movers and shakers in Europe that CAN implement change, or is just seen as a minor irritant with other minor irritants forming their little alliances, to irritate?

[claig]

'Spin…you are still not getting it, what is the cheap heckling in the EU parliament going to achieve for the UK?'

Cameron just talks about 'cut the green crap', but Farage will actually do it. It is in Brussels that these regulatins and laws are made and after may, 30-35% of the EU MEPs will be from populist parties all across Europe. They will put an end to the 'gren crap' and lots of the other crap. They will put a spanner in the wheel unlie some of the spanners in Parliament.

[Isitmebut]

Claig...very interesting, in the EU parliament, can you change any laws with a 30-35% 'majority'?

[claig]

You can certainly end the gravy train, the march to further integration, windmills, climate claptrap, 'green crap', zero-growth globalisation policies and centralised control of finance by an unelected elite.

The bankers and their paid-for puppets don't find it 'interesting', they are panicking. The people are taking back power form the undemocratic, technocratic, plutocratic elite.

[Isitmebut]

"You can certainly end the gravy train,".

Please explain how a rag bag of non government MEP's will do this to an entrenched international civil service; is Farage starting by giving back the £2million of expenses (gravy) by 2009 that he indicated was partially to fund Ukip activities?

The bankers won't really care what happens, they adapt. New York used to be the main financial centre between them, London and Tokyo, before London edged ahead; the international capital markets head offices and main activities can be anywhere. Until the mid 1970's, the main European hub was in Switzerland.

[claig]

"Entrenched international civil services" don't last for ever. You haven't been paying attention to politics if you don't understand the huge earthquake that will occur after the May Euro elections.

The people are speaking and voting in droves for populist parties that oppose further EU integration and want to dismantle it. UKIP's growing success is only a symptom of what is happening all over Europe as people lose faith in the elites who have led them into the disastrous Euro problems.

'The bankers won't really care what happens, they adapt.'

You're dreaming. Of course they care because there are likely to be regulations against them in Europe as populist parties oppose rule by the bankers. UKIP is different because some of the City back them and oppose the proposed financial transaction tax which the Tories also oppose. But, there is no doubt that the interests of the bankers are threatened by populist European parties (not UKIP). And the whole European Project is under increasing threat and that is not a project of the bankers alone even though they implement austerity within it.

[Isitmebut]

Claig.


On investment banks, please believe history shows I’m right, although it will be tougher for the likes of German, French and Italian investment banks to do this, this time – so this will be another case of non competing EU regs, doing their own businesses harm.

IMO all the American, Japanese and whoever else probably has to do is leave over 90% of their total staff like sales and support staff where they are, but place their Head Office address/accounts and their trading personnel outside the EU (or in a non conforming UK), to get passed a ‘transaction tax’, that will anyway get passed on to the likes of pension fund clients, via widening dealing bid/offer spreads.

This is because the tax of 0.05% or whatever is BIGGER than many competitive institutional clients dealing spreads e.g. government bonds & futures, and its impractical in so many other ways as well e.g. hedging risk on a big pension fund transaction.


The EU 'project' is only at risk if the EU doesn't become a Federalist State, which is currently the plan, as to work effectively they have to harmonise taxes, pensions, accounting, government spending etc never mind political differences, which was always the case with a 'one size fits all currency and interest rate, but they could fudge it until the first serious recession.

After all re Uniting the State's of America, they had similar problems and I can't remember if it was the 3rd or 4th attempt at becomes a U.S.A., worked.

This is why Ukip stopping a Conservative Referendum by getting in the way, is so dangerous as we will not be able to legally leave the EU.

[Isitmebut]

Claig..is Ukip seriously beginning to believe their own propaganda on the point of having an anti EU Ukip MEP, of dubious cake fillings as character, representing the UK whether we can get out via a Conservative Referendum, or not, thanks to Ukip?

The European people in many countries have never really been behind the project, so we have gone beyond protest parties.

How many countries that were lucky enough to be given a vote said ‘yes’ via a small margin; Dublin if memory serves said ‘no’ initially and the project powers that be were going to have as many votes as it took to say ‘yes’, which they did.

It is the senior politician and bureaucrats dream project, this was never about the people, so like Labour they don’t care a stuff about what the people think, therefore small protest parties WITHOUT a majority in their home parliament, as a gaggle of fruit loops can make themselves as unwelcome in the European Parliament as a bottom burp in a space suit, THEY WILL CHANGE NOTHING.

Only European governments getting together to implement changes and reforms, giving EU bureaucrats a good slap in the process, CAN CHANGE ANYTHING, and funny old world a severe recession focuses their minds on a restrictive, inefficient, therefore unsustainable EU.

[claig]

'It is the senior politician and bureaucrats dream project, this was never about the people, so like Labour they don’t care a stuff about what the people think, therefore small protest parties WITHOUT a majority in their home parliament, as a gaggle of fruit loops can make themselves as unwelcome in the European Parliament as a bottom burp in a space suit, THEY WILL CHANGE NOTHING.'

Isitmebut, Dave wants to stay in Europe. He wants to do some renegotiation and stay in it. But the people across all of Europe are moving to the position of wanting out. I am not sure that the "senior politicians and bureaucrats dream project" can last. Democracy will make a mockery of it, so I don't know how they can stop it falling apart unless they abolish democracy.

[Isitmebut]

Claig...The Common Market of several large nations, in the EU's original form, was a great idea for several reasons and I'd vote have voted for it, but I and numerous others across Europe are not in favour of a bureaucratic Super-State.

But I reiterate, whatever happens, it will survive in one form or other; just the original type members i.e. Germany, France, Holland and the Beni-Lux countries, or the different tiers/speeds I mentioned from 7 to 28 (whatever) countries. Too much political and monetary capital has been invested into it, and there is now too much debt supporting it, since the crash, to equitably distribute

‘Democracy’ was either theose lucky enough to get an informed debate, or elected the majority of governments who joined the EU in far better times and included it in their manifestos; few signed and then went ‘SURPRISE’.

But lets be honest for a moment, ‘the people’ are not always an accurate indicator of what is right for them, as not only are there too much detail to analyse, their voting intensions can be more coloured by their own domestic government/economic situation (in the greatest recession since the 1930’s), which is the type of excuse Labour give for not trusting the people to vote, and few could argue with that logic.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537029/We-let-people-decide-Mandelson-warns-against-LOTTERY-giving-voters-say-leaving-European-Union.html



And I’ll reiterate a personal view of mine, that while I think that I’m fairly well read up on most things political (and financial), I on balance cannot form a view on in or out, because no bugger has laid out all the facts before me.

The Conservatives, led by Cameron, have been split on this for decades, and this was cited back in 1997 as a voter turnoff – and this was an additional reason why Brown rushed through the signing of the Lisbon Treaty (where he came in late with his pen, literally by the back door to miss the photo calls) as another one of his ‘screw the country’ to get to the Conservatives, for a 2015 rebound to power.

So Cameron’s view, one way or another, only counts as one vote in a UK Referendum, and based on what the EU has become, what many of the people want, and what many Conservative MP’s want, a Conservative government will give the country a vote

What I see as hugely encouraging is that there will be an INFORMED debate from both camps, and all ‘the people’ will have all the YES/NO facts before them. Hopefully more interesting and less ‘personal’ than the Scottish Independence vote. Lol

Ukip are now just getting in the way of a Referendum, or any positive attempts at EU reform, as they are powerless to do anything other than insult ‘the man’ in the European parliament, whoever that man happens to be.

[claig]

I am not an expert on it, but if anyone leaves the EU, I think it will be France and if it does the shockwaves will be so huge that the fissures will destroy the entire EU and other countries will follow very quickly.

'We have a minor earthquake in France. A party committed to withdrawal from the euro, the restoration of French franc, and the complete destruction of monetary union has just defeated the establishment in the Brignoles run-off election.

It is threatening Frexit as well, which rather alters the political chemistry of Britain's EU referendum.'

....

'I am watching this with curiosity, since Marine Le Pen told me in June that her first order of business on setting foot in the Elysee Palace (if elected) would be to announce a referendum on membership of the European Union, with a "rendez-vous" one year later:


I will negotiate over the points on which there can be no compromise. If the result is inadequate, I will call for withdrawal. Europe is just a great bluff. On one side there is the immense power of sovereign peoples, and on the other side are a few technocrats

...

" France is not a country that can accept tutelage from Brussels ."

Officials will be told to draw up plans for the restoration of the franc. Eurozone leaders will face a stark choice: either work with France for a "sortie concerted" or coordinated EMU break-up: or await their fate in a disorderly collapse

" We cannot be seduced. The euro ceases to exist the moment that France leaves, and that is our incredible strength. What are they going to do, send in tanks? "

Her four sticking points on EU membership are withdrawal from the currency, the restoration of French border control, the primacy of French law, and what she calls "economic patriotism", the power for France to pursue "intelligent protectionism" and safeguard its social model. "I cannot imagine running economic policy without full control over our own money," she said.

...

'It is now highly likely that the Front will sweep the European elections next May, a vote perfectly suited to their agenda. It will not be alone. Euro-sceptics look poised to storm the Strasbourg Hemicycle. That will be another fact on the ground.

The worst fears of the EU elites are starting to come true. It is entirely their own fault .'

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100025783/time-to-take-bets-on-frexit-and-the-french-franc/

France historically cannot be controlled or subjugated by a tiny technocratic elite of puppets who work for a handful of plutocrats. The French had a revolution to overthrow a previous aristocratic elite.

The tiny puppets and popinjays and ex-polytechnic lecturers and ex-barristers will have to accept France's terms, but these terms are against everything that their plutocratic banking masters had planned for the European people and for their global order. What will happen?

As Le Pen asked 'What are they going to do, send in tanks?'
I wouldn't put it past them, because they are witnessing the end of their dreams and plans and the decline of their grip on power. Whatever happens, France and the French people will win.

" The worst fears of the EU elites are starting to come true "

It's coming to a head and the puppets are shaking. At Davos and elsewhere the puppets and their masters speak of nothing else.

'And I’ll reiterate a personal view of mine, that while I think that I’m fairly well read up on most things political (and financial), I on balance cannot form a view on in or out, because no bugger has laid out all the facts before me.'

The only fact worth considering is that being in strips us of our democratic right to make our own laws and determine our own fate and make our own rules on whether our rivers can be dredged and how the silt from them will be disposed of and whether the eco-habitat of the 'Depressed River Mussel' shpuld prevent dredging and whether we should cripple our industries with their carbon taxes.

The whole thing is coming to an end and the entire class pf puppets who have fed at the trough will lose.

[claig]

Thatcher was the trailblazer who once stood up to and told a fomer French socialist President of the European Commission

"No Mr Delors. We shall not have socialism by the back door"

Then we had an "Et tu Douglas?" moment when Thatcher was removed.

But it doesn't matter how many socialist Presidents of the European Commission or former Presidents of the European Commission such as Manuel Barroso who was once one of the leaders of the underground Maoist MRPP (Reorganising Movement of the Proletariat Party, later PCTP/MRPP, Communist Party of the Portuguese Workers/Revolutionary Movement of the Portuguese Proletariat) or progressives there are that jump to the tune of the plutocratic elite, they will not be able to prevent the tide of public opinion, just as King Canute couldn't stop the sea.

Le Pen will call all of their bluffs, and she said

"Europe is just a great bluff. On one side there is the immense power of sovereign peoples, and on the other side are a few technocrats"

[Isitmebut]

Claig….P-lease, enough with the revolutionary Citizen Smith ‘everyone in government is going up against the wall’ rants, especially as much of what I been reading of your regurgitated (theoretical ) quotes of others, are just that, and usually ill-informed to the application in the real world, and often short of facts.
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100259829/ukip-needs-to-do-something-about-its-online-nutters//

In France, the BNP under le Pen has done well because the incompetent socialist agenda of Mr Hollande, along the ‘big unreformed state to economic growth’ lines of Miliband, and they have over 12% unemployment, hence my point about some anti EU anger, is caused by domestic governments.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2483837/Wonder-Britain-like-Red-Eds-PM-Just-look-socialist-shambles-mates-created-France-writes-SIMON-HEFFER.html

Many in France say that Le Pen’s support may have peaked, but as usual no one will know until their General Election.

But as far as they go, I think they were close very close to 50-50 on the EU, and as most French graduates aspire to a job in government, they are unlikely to be too concerned about bureaucracy within the EU, they even have a name for it….bureaucracy.lol

[claig]

Isitmebut, you don't understand the public mood. Have you read the comments of Daily Telegraph readers to Damian Thompson's article? Do you read the comments of Daily Mail readers?

Unfortunately, you are out-of-touch just like Cameron who called UKIP "fruitcakes" and then had to swallow his words.

We will have to wait and see what happens after the Euro elections.

'But as far as they go, I think they were close very close to 50-50 on the EU, and as most French graduates aspire to a job in government, they are unlikely to be too concerned about bureaucracy within the EU'

50-50 is possibly right. But you are underestimating the French if you think they are more interested in career than country. They cannot all be bought.

[Isitmebut]

Claig….what is “out of touch”, being angry, frustrated and not understanding what IS possible for government to improve one’s situation in the largest recession since the 1930’s, or grasping the enormity of the many problems that a government has inherited, and try to work their way through them – as there are no short cuts to job creation and increased pay rates, a decent education, whether a country in spending £150 billion more than it earns each year in 2010, or around £100 billion (it does not have) now?

The Euro elections will change NOTHING on UK domestic policies, it is just a waste of a vote if it puts an opportunist candidate in Europe on £182k remuneration plus expenses at the taxpayer expense, often of dubious character, into a European parliament they cannot change.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2554783/UKIP-mans-chief-backer-porn-star-called-Lord-Lust-Nigel-Farages-pledge-weed-Walter-Mittys.html

[claig]

No, being "out of touch" has nothing to do with what policies you believe will sollve what you belive our problems are. Being "out of touch" is not listening to what the public is saying.

To paraphrase Clinton, "it's about the public, stupid, not about the policy wonks".

I have just read further in the comments to that Daily Telegraph article and it is amazing what their readers are saying and how they think that the Daily Telegraph has gone "left wing" and employed "left wing bloggers" to try and steer the public. That is another example of "out of touch". It's not about spinning and steering people (that was New Labour's trick) it's about listening.

'The Euro elections will change NOTHING on UK domestic policies'

I hope Central Office has some more switched on people than you on their side because they are going to need them.

The Euro elections may spell the end of Cameron depending on how bad the results are. Of course it will affect Tory Party policy and hence domestic politics. It is a watershed moment for them. If they read the tea leaves wrongly (like you tend to do), then it is curtains for them.

[Isitmebut]

Claig…’people want’ less cuts, more jobs, more pay, more pensions, more social security, more education, more police, more hospital beds, more sex shops etc etc etc.

How am I doing so far????

But the hell does ANY government inheriting a £150 billion overspend do all of that, when their national debt will be £1,500,000,000,000 by 2015 – when the only way to start paying that off, apart from more economic growth, is for LESS of everything else on the wish list?

What right does any of ‘the people’ of today, have in saying WE WANT MORE in a near busted country and have the next several generations pay it off????

THIS is the real world I’m talking about that you don’t seem able to grasp, and hence people can waste votes in April this year (or May 2015) and it won’t make a blind bit of difference to ANY government’s realistic options for MORE over the next decade or so.

Cameron can lose every MEP seat and it won't make a jot of difference to his job security, as he cannot be responsible for those who can’t grasp our economic reality, which were the economic and social cards he inherited in 2015 – that would have got worse under Labour.

[claig]

OK, now what do Tories want?

Cuts to 'ring-fenced foreign aid', cuts to 'green crap', cuts to spending on windfarms, cuts to salaries of quangocrats, cuts to waste in spending by quangos, taxes on so-called 'charities'. fewer 'tsars', no more £31m 'bird sanctuares' and a real control of expenditure by these quangos headed up by ex-New Labour types on £100,000 for 3 day weeks.

And with what they save on that they can start to provide all the other things too.

'What right does any of ‘the people’ of today, have in saying WE WANT MORE in a near busted country and have the next several generations pay it off????'

Because they work for us, the people, and we don't want them to award themselves an 11% pay increase while they cut everything else apart from their cherished 'ring-fenced foreign aid' and funding of the Ethiopian Spice Girls and the taxpayer susbsidies they give to their rich chums to erect useless windmills on their land which catch fire when a storm starts.

'it won’t make a blind bit of difference to ANY government’s realistic options for MORE over the next decade or so'

If that is their defeatist attitude and lack of policy and spirit, no wonder they will lose votes. We want a 'can-do' attitude - a slashing of the £90 odd billion spent on quangos, a huge cut in BBC salaries paid for by the public, a scrapping of HS2, a moratorium on foreign aid spending to countries with space programmes.

'Britain gives millions in 'climate aid' to tackle flatulent Colombian cows... plus £31m to Turkish wind farms and funding for talks with Kenyan 'rain-makers'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245300/Britain-gives-millions-climate-aid-tackle-flatulent-Colombian-cows--plus-31m-Turkish-wind-farms-funding-talks-Kenyan-rain-makers.html

How about being responsible wth our taxpayer money that people sweated and grafted for while this out-of-touch elite blew our money away in their pet projects while claiming every bath plug they could from the public?

That would be a start. But even that may be too late to save them now.