I know I'm being unreasonable...

[thesnootyfox]

But I really find young people (under 25) who have Tory values very very annoying.

[claig]

By the way, I'm not a fan of the Sun, but facts are facts and that is the highest selling paper.

[CoffeeandNumbers]

As a long time lurker, this has to be one of the weirdest thereads ever. And what happened to the op?

[DSM]

The Sun is not the highest selling paper in the country.

I genuinely don't know anyone that reads the Sun. But I know a lot that read The Grauniad, some are under 25 or thereabouts.

Who are you seeing represented in the media that votes against tory? I am confused by this.

[DSM]

It really is.. but it is amusing me so

[claig]

'The Sun is not the highest selling paper in the country.'

I thought it was, but I may be wrong. What is the highest selling paper?

'But I know a lot that read The Grauniad, some are under 25 or thereabouts.'

But are they representative of the majority of the young people in the country? I expect William Hague read the Telegraph when he was 14, but he wasn't really representative of the majority of young people.

[claig]

'but it is amusing me so'

Facts are not amusing, they are a serious matter!

[DSM]

dickiedavisthunderthighs Fri 11-Jan-13 00:32:36
Based on percentages high to low, based on all national press, it goes something like Metro, Guardian, Independent, Times, Sun, Mirror, Daily Mail, Express,Telegraph.

It was posted earlier, you must have missed it.

And no, I don't believe that the people I know who tend to read broadsheets over tabloids are necessarily representative of society as a whole. However, they do highlight the fact that you cannot be correct, much as nor can I, in a sweeping generalisation of the political views of the under 25's in the UK, given that we both have experiences that differ.

[claig]

OK, we will have to agree to disagree, but at least we can agree on one thing, that young Tories are in no way annoying, you only have to think of the young William Hague.

[piprabbit]

This item in the Guardian says that the Sun has the highest daily circulation, by a very significant margin (10 times higher than the Guardian's own circulation).

The Daily Mail has the second highest circulation after the Sun. They are also the top two selling papers on Sunday's.

[claig]

Thanks, piprabbit. I thought that was the case, and for the Daily Mail deservedly so!

[DSM]

Sundays has no apostrophe

I was quoting from dickiedavis who posted earlier, I have no idea about newspaper readership across the UK.

claig - you can't disagree with what I said - it was fact! Unless you profess to know all the under 25's in the United Kingdom, then it is indeed a fact that we both can only speak from our own experiences, which given that they are at different ends of the spectrum, leads to the conclusion that we have no outcome on this topic. We could therefore conclude that the political preference of under 25's is indeed, mixed (that is, if we are continuing to base political views solely on newspaper choice) or we could simply conduct further studies. I am willing to take on the North - say.. from Leeds upwards? Obviously covering a lot more ground than in your district but a lot lower density areas, so it seems fair.

We can reconvene in a few days.

Also, I'm really sorry but I won't be able to agree to share your viewpoint that young tories are in no way annoying, because I know one that is. Really annoying actually, and I've met a few of his friends and they seemed of the same ilk. Mostly English though, educated at St. Andrews. Which is probably where most Scottish tory votes come from

[claig]

'you can't disagree with what I said - it was fact'

Facts are like bread and water to me, they are the staples I live by, so I will not argue with your facts. You are right.

[dickiedavisthunderthighs]

DSM I was quoting on percentages of readers under 25, not volume. The Sun is the highest selling national daily.

[thesnootyfox]

What happened to the OP?

I posted and went to bed, there were not any responses last time I checked!

I'm not saying that the majority of under 25's are Tories, I think they are definitely in the minority. It's just when I come across them I find them incredibly annoying. As I said I know I am being unreasonable.

I think it's because they come across as not being particularly well-informed, I am never sure if they hold their opinions because they read crappy tabloids or if they have been brainwashed by their parents.

I was watching Question Time last night and there was a young woman on there who was particularly annoying, ranting on about the welfare state and the previous Labour government throwing money at people. When young people hold these views it doesn't seem right somehow and it always makes me think of the young William Hague and his speech as a young Tory. William Hague's speech was nauseating and annoying and I don't want to see more young people embarrassing themselves like that.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

To go back to the original post for a second. Rather than get annoyed if a young person holds opinions you don't agree with, why not try persuading them round to your point of view? However, I suspect if you're calling it 'Tory values' what you're really saying is that the young person has made some off-colour remark about benefit claimants or similar.... not that they are espousing free enterprise and low taxation.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Why is it not 'right' to think the previous Labour government spent money like crazy? I tell you what I find hilarious... it's when someone that age tries to tell me how terrible the Thatcher era was. :) At least someone in their early twenties directly experienced the actions of the last administration. I think they're allowed an opinion.

[HoneyDragon]

An ageist, judgy and condescending op. my favourite kind.

[thesnootyfox]

I usually do Cogito. I have asked a couple of my relatives why their fb profile states that they are a Tory. They normally respond with disparaging remarks about single mothers and immigrants. Life is tough for young people they will have to work until their 70s etc and don't have as many choices as we do and it is easier for them to point the finger at a particular section of society. I ask them how they would feel if they lost the right to complain about a work related dispute or claim unfair dismissal and they say that would be a bad thing but are completely unaware of the Coalitions attempts at reducing individuals employment rights. I blame the parents...

[DontmindifIdo]

OP - I think I understand why you feel that way, there's a view that when you are young you should be idealistic, wanting to change the world and believing that your parent's generation just got it wrong and you would be able to create a fairer and better society if you just were able to get these stupid old people protecting their privilege to see it. That when you are young you have far less to lose by a new social order taking from the rich (someone else), to give to the poor.

The majority of people's views do move to the right (even if just a little) as they get older, have more experience of the world, are more cynical about the ability of governments to effect change or that human nature would mean it would ever work, and more importantly, when they start to have something to lose (very few people outside the music and creative industries seem to stay on the left after becoming rich - not surprising when it's your money that'll be taken that you feel you've worked hard for you're less keen on it being removed for hte greater good!).

So to have come to that conclusion early seems cynical and heartless, or just more worldly aware. To have realised that you're likely to be one of those who do badly out of a socialist government early is also annoying to others, the young people might not be wealthy now but have an expectation that they will be amongst the 'winners' in a 'winners and losers society' can be depressing to see when you think that at the same age you didn't!

[thesnootyfox]

Don'tmindifIdo - Yes I think that is it.

[DontmindifIdo]

Also worth remembering, I was raised with a Thatcher government, however if you are 18, you were what, at most 2 when New Labour came to power. They've lived it. For a lot of older people it does seem there was a 'throw money at it, not solve it' attitude to a lot of social problems, I would argue (and I did at the time) that the Labour policy of not discussing the negative aspects of immigration and even pretending there were none, meant they left that space empty for the racists to take it.

Also, if your young, you are most likely to be in low paid insecure work compared to older people. You are therefore more likely to be competing with immigrants for work. You are most likely to be struggling to pay for property as you are competing with immigrants for cheaper properties. You are most likely to find your lifestyle is lower than that of a 'single mother on benefits' - it's easier to be generous from a more secure position and/or are one of the people who are recieving from the society or have in the past, or from seeing that a single parent on benefits lifestyle is shit compared to yours, it must be hard to be in the situation of someone who's lifestyle is worse but to know you are paying for it. That must make you harder.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I think an unfortunate consequence of the last government's policies... and a big part of why they lost the last election... was that they seemed to be rewarding the wrong people. Rightly or wrongly a feeling of unfairness set in over jobs, housing, crime. Remember the woman that collared Gordon Brown and was labelled by him as a bigot? The points she was making were pretty typical of a wider dissatisfaction among dyed-in-the-wool Labour voters.

So your young people who are going on about immigrants and single parents are not necessarily displaying 'Tory values'... they're rather closer to disaffected working-class voters like Mrs Duffy. The very ones, in fact, that the BNP so successfully exploited in the past.

[hoodoo12345]

I have read the daily mail and the sun before, i find them quite amusing at times, but would NEVER vote Tory, EVER.
And i know i would of had the same opinion at 24.

[LaCiccolina]

When I was under 25 I was Tory because where I lived was Tory and it worked where I lived.

Surely that how most people develop an opinion? Based on experience of where they live? I don't believe half the north is labour for actual researched opinion but because its what they know and grew up with and everyone around was labour!

[DontmindifIdo]

Cogito has a good point. I think it's going to be hard for Labour to shake that reputation of no longer being the party of the 'poor but hard working' but of the party for people who want 'something for nothing' - in the same way it took sooo long for the Tories to stop being seen as the 'nasty party'. (and many on here still find it hard to believe most people don't assume they are just pure evil! )