How would an atheist explain death to a small child?

[puffling]

I'm just curious. It's a few years till dd will ask about that, but I don't want to be telling her about heaven and hell. Neither do I want to scare her by telling her the plain truth.

[startouchedtrinity]

I like the idea of the 'passing on the genes' thing. But sadly for my dd1 her first experience of death was when her best friend died of menigitis aged 4 - they hadn't even started school. How to explain that? As it is, dd1 believes her friend is safe in God's hands, and she drew a picture to give to his non-believing mum.

I'm not an atheist but a believer in the possibilty of an afterlife - after all nobody knows for certain and there seems little point getting stressed about it. The stars idea is, IMO, quite lovely, and not entirely untrue.

[Stroo]

Peachy etc. - sorry you find it vomit inducing! I don't see anything wrong with telling a (very sensitive) 6 year old and four year old that that's their kitten (or whatever) in the stars looking down on them.

Time to find out the bleak truth later eh?

[eemie]

aloha, love your line about God should be in bed. Must work it in to my novel somewhere.

And Hallgerda, respect to you for 'Ilkley moor baht 'at atheist'.

I do the t'worms and the genes. So when dd cries because she never met Grandpa, I say no but she's met me, my two sisters and brother and each of us is half Grandpa, she herself is one quarter Grandpa, and we all resemble him.

And we tell her stories about him, pass on memories, look at pictures, enjoy his favourite songs etc.

Of course I was brought up on the Christian explanation. Now I look back and try to work out when I stopped believing it. Hard to tell, because I tried so hard to keep believing. But suspect it was early on - maybe before age five.

Kids are good bullshit detectors - think I was picking up that my parents didn't really believe it either.

So (in my opinion) we should tell them what we really do think, not what we'd like to think - because they can tell the difference

[Peachy]

There's an RE course at Uni, they ahve loads of kids books. If you want i could pop up and get a few references for you? The DK one really is fab (has all the other main ones in tre too, and Jainism and a few others) and has the mopst amazing pictures, but there is some good stuff out there now. Just ask if you want me to do that. I ahve a few books but all adult, although if you wanted to borrow the course introductory Hindu text you'd be welscome.

If it wasn't fr that TB Bull (and when that is sorted) the Ashram at carmarthen is very chidl friendly, several there when we went, and the monks are amazing.

[Blu]

peachy - ah yes, perhaps not (on plane. with kids. etc! sorry!)

Will look at DK book. DS is interested in Hinduism..I would like him to have access to the more subtle 'journey to enlightenment' aspect of it practiced by intellectual Hindus, in addition to the adventures of Hannuman...

[GooseyLoosey]

When ds asked about this at 3 I pointed to a dead wood louse and explained that it had just stopped going and would never go again and it was the same with people.

We also had a sideline in memories and going back to being part of the earth but to be honest I think he was perfectly happy with the first bit of the explanation and was bored and confused by this bit. I think we may revisit this later.

My biggest thing is not to present it in a scary way and to ensure that it is not something which is ever a taboo subject in our house.

[FirenzeandZooey]

I just say when we die our bodies stop working, and the goodness in them goes back into the ground and helps to make new life grow.

It did scare ds at first but he was mostly worried about what would happen to him if dp or I died. It was hard, but once we got over trying to basically lie and tell him it would never happen, and help him talk through how things could work out (who could look after you? What other people love you? You could live with them, etc) then he was able to move on from it.

He was about 2.5 when he started asking, so it really was tough to explain, but the truth worked better than any story IMO.

[peanutbear]

well my 9 tr old atheist by his own choice

after being told his great grandmother had died and momy was upset tutted at me and said well it happens to us all someday, I went into my speal about being able to lok down from heaven and DS said mommy I love you but if you believe that your a bit thick!!!

[Peachy]

Blu has he got the |DK guide to religions? DS1 has that, actually has sytuff about Hinusim we didnt cover on our degree pmsl


New York. On a plane, With my kids. Stuck thre in one space. erm

[Blu]

Peachy - go to the Planetarium in New York - there is a most excellent plantearium display / experience which shows how all atoms DO come from space and how all our atoms do come from ...oooh, I forget, but matter from space, anyway.

So you keep your drunken vomiting to yourself

I hadn't yet identified myself as a member of the 'food for worms' brigade, but I guess I am a fully paid-up-member, (give or take 'fertiliser for woodland plants') so may well include that in the explanation to DS when the time is right.

But DS is toying with his HIndu roots and re-incarnation so we may yet see the marigolds lifeless while his wriggling hand goes on to be a Timelord (his current aspiration)

[Peachy]

Stroo
sorry and each to our own and all that but



(Disclaimer: quantities of alcohol aprtaken)

[Stroo]

We are part of planet earth which was made from space and therefore "we are all made of Stars"

I personally believe that when you are dead you are gone and should therefore enjoy each day as it comes.

but

It's quite nice to tell small children that we came from Stars and go back to being stars. my Ds (4 & 6) - even picked a star for various relatives / pets when they died.

HTH

[Hallgerda]

I suppose you could call me an On Ilkley Moor Baht'at atheist. I believe that death is the end, but that the physical remains get recycled. I have told my children the plain truth - surely it's considerably less scary than sticking around for eternity and running out of interesting things to do?

As well as the possibility that someone close to your children may die, it's worth being prepared for the possibility that a "friend" may tell them they're going to spend eternity in a bad place for not believing in a particular god (yes, it really does happen).

[HedTwigg]

came in to check my 'sock puppet' made me thread

well done

have to say Blu I'm an atheist who does believe in life after death in a Jonathon Livingston Seagull sort of way so it works for us .. but I can totally see why it doesn't work for the 'food for the worms' brigade .. although even there there's a continuation of life

maybe you could have the hand lying still and the other hand comes wiggling back and eats it? .. maybe not eh?

[Peachy]

Mum is the most vehement of atheists- she just talks about the end really.

She does also mention that when you die you become part fo the earth again 9assumng not cremated obv) and from you grows the plants that the next generation needs to survive

Not necessarily technically correct with modern burial methods BUT we have willow coffins mentiojned in our wills, so pretty much it

[lljkk]

DD is very sensitive and anxious about most things, including death.
Lots of "But I don't want to die!" And "I don't want you to die!"

I tell her that dead people don't mind being dead. That when you're dead you don't feel upset or unhappy about it. So she won't mind being dead.

I tell her that I won't die until I am an old lady and she is all grown up. By then the thought of me dying won't bother her so much, and that usually people are very unwell when they die so it's a kind of relief that they stop hurting.

Actually, I hate saying that. She knows that sometimes mummies die when children are little, and I have to say that that was very unusual, the mummies were VERY "unlucky". Death in itself is easier to deal with than untimely premature death.

Maybe that sounds too brutally honest, but DD is 5 & hasn't anxiously asked in a while, so I assume she's satisfied with what I've said, for now.

DS is 7 and has virtually NEVER asked about death, just doesn't worry him.

[Blu]

Yes -I agree with Aloha too - we talked abut him remembering me after I'm dead and he will always know that I loved him and that love will always live in his heart...

[Blu]

Hmm. You see I have a problem with Twigs sock puppet explanation because there IS a bit left wriggling afterwards, without it's glove-body - and i just don't believe that.

I haven't had to explain a RL death of a relative to DS, but we have talked about death.

I started by talking about the time before we were born - when we didn't exist and didn't know we were going to exist - but there was nothing horrid or frightening about it - we just 'weren't'. And when we come to the end of our life, we go back to the same state we were in befor we were born. And it doesn't matter to us because we don't know about it - just like before we were born, but it is sad for the people who miss us. DS was 3, going on 4 when I first told him that - and he has had absolutely no problem with it.

[charleymouse]

I was recently advised not to liken death to sleep as can be scary for small children and they may worry about going to sleep themselves.

[BBBBasilisk]

twig's sock puppet

genius.

[MadEyemarthamooDy]

No, I don't think you die and that's it either . But that phrase is what came into my mind on reading "telling her the plain truth" as opposed to heaven and hell in the OP.

I just typed aspooposed instead of as opposed - I should go to bed.

[aloha]

I don't think you do 'die and that's it' I NOW bits of me live on my children, and that I have influenced other people.
But also, I think to live is privilege enough. Was watching Beethoven's 9th on the Proms and the commentator said, 'makes you glad to be alive' and I though, bloody hell yes, just to live is to be so LUCKY!

[madamez]

Aloha: beautifully put. I'm with you on that one. Luckily have not had to explain it to DS yet as he is 2.9 (even though one of my friends is dying today).

[MadEyemarthamooDy]

I'll roughly paraphrase what I've said to my boys...

Some people believe that when you die you go to Heaven, but some people don't believe in Heaven - and think that dying is just like going to sleep and not waking up. Some people believe in re-incarnation and think that you can come back as another human or an animal. I think that whatever happens after you die - we can't possibly imagine it - and if there is something else, it's nothing that we're able to imagine. And so long as people who love you still think about you and remember you and laugh when they remember things you said and things you did then a bit of you is still alive...in them. And in a way a part of you goes on living if you have children...in their children (etc etc) - like parts of your Grandmas and Grandads, and Great Grandmas and Great Grandads are in you.

It's probably terribly wishy washy and they'll probably both seek spiritual reassurance and become Catholic priests or Buddhist monks or something...but I can't say to a 5 year old "you die and that's it."