Where do I fit in?

[itsveryyou]

Feeling confused and would love to know what others think. I feel a belief in 'God' but see it more as the energy in stuff around me, like nature and people and animals, rather than as a creator or omnipotent presence.

I go to church occasionally and enjoy the environment, the peace, the history, sense of occasion, hymns - but I feel hypocritical as I don't believe in every element which seems to form most faithful church-goers' perspectives.

I think Jesus probably lived, and was a great leader who inspired people to be good, but I can't believe he was a product of a virgin birth, or someone who performed miracles, so does that mean I can't be a Christian? I find it very hard to accept resurrection, or walking on water, or ascending to heaven, or the second coming.

I have strong morals and think the 10 commandments are pretty good rules to live by, but I don't see the Bible as anything other than a collection of fables and stories which came together over time and give an insight into the past but aren't so very relevant today.

I believe in evolution and the Big Bang as how everything started, but I can't explain what, if anything happened before that, as in, did another greater force make this happen?

I think I just want to know where I fit in...or not, as the case may be! Is there such thing as a 'non literal Christian'?!

[pocketsaviour]

OP if you are interested in concepts such as the flow of energy/life force, you could do some reading into Taoism.

The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff is a very easy read as somewhere to start.

Robert Pirsig's writing is also broadly aligned with Taoism (especially Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) but is a lot more bogged down in theoretical philosophy.

When I had more mobility I used to practise Tai Chi which is great for getting connected with that energy in a very physical way.

[JasperDamerel]

I have similar views to view and am a Unitarian, although I am quite interested in the C of E at the moment, so have been having a look at this folder am somewhat shocked to think that without having actually changed any of my beliefs, I am starting to feel comfortable with the idea of being a (liberal, fairly radical) Christian rather than a more or less agnostic with vaguely pagan leanings.

Anyway, I think you would probably like Unitariansm. There are hymns and prayers and sermons, but a lot of tolerance and hugely diverging views within the congregation, and a strong element of social activism. Questioning and rational thought is viewed very positively.

[ilovemargaretatwood8931]

Hello TooBusy,

I know what you mean with the congregation thing. I've been on 4 different faith sharing courses now (well, 2 were confirmation groups, but the conf. candidates were outnumbered by other parishoners), and found them to be real hotbeds of discussion and ideas that were not at all traditional.
BUT, none were run by the priest, except for a few sessions, and those were much more constrained and people were more conservative in those evenings.

In one I was at the other night, we talked about evolution and everybody totally subscribed to it. Also we all had views (well, over the weeks I've found this) on divorce, gay marriage and gay identity and women in the church that are at odds with the churches official position, and that included the priest.

I also do some volunteer work with a church group, and talking to people there has been fascinating, so many views.

I used to go to another church years ago, and found the mood there to be much more conservative, from the outside.

[TooBusyByHalf]

ilove it's really interesting that you can have such a liberal interpretation of Christianity and still go to a Catholic church - I'd have expected that catholics would be keener on a more literal interpretation

Which makes me wonder, how much do churchgoers discuss their faith with other members of the congregation? I've seen people saying on other threads that they've discussed this or that with others, and I'm wondering when and where those conversations take place? When I used to go to church I'm pretty sure no-one ever has those kinds of conversations. Even the confirmation preparation classes I did contained almost no substantive content so far as I recall...

[ilovemargaretatwood8931]

Hi OP, I really liked and identified with your post, and hope you don't mind that I've written a bit of a long answer!

I feel a belief in 'God' but see it more as the energy in stuff around me, like nature and people and animals, rather than as a creator or omnipotent presence.

I feel just like this about God OP! Kind of like the 'force' (Starwars!)! I've always felt this, and only in the last few years have called it God.

I go to church occasionally and enjoy the environment, the peace, the history, sense of occasion, hymns - but I feel hypocritical as I don't believe in every element which seems to form most faithful church-goers' perspectives.

I go to church, and understand your worry of hypocrisy. I feel the same, as I don't agree or believe with every element of what the church does. But I have stopped worrying too much about it.

I think Jesus probably lived, and was a great leader who inspired people to be good, but I can't believe he was a product of a virgin birth, or someone who performed miracles, so does that mean I can't be a Christian? I find it very hard to accept resurrection, or walking on water, or ascending to heaven, or the second coming.

I know what you mean with this. My take on Jesus is that he was a radical activist and he believed we were all children of God, so he was the son of God, and also was God, and I can get on board with that. I think there's God in all of us (if we want to call 'it' God!).

I have strong morals and think the 10 commandments are pretty good rules to live by, but I don't see the Bible as anything other than a collection of fables and stories which came together over time and give an insight into the past but aren't so very relevant today.

I went on a faith sharing course recently, and it was fascinating learning about others perspectives on the bible, I definitely came away with the view that it's a collection of books, which include family history records, stories, legends, songs, laws and also some true historical accounts. I definitely don't believe it's all literally true. I don't know any other people who think that either, but I used to assume all Christians thought this. I know some do, but I don't know any.

I believe in evolution and the Big Bang as how everything started, but I can't explain what, if anything happened before that, as in, did another greater force make this happen?

Me too. I guess I've now decided that the force that was the big bang is what I'd call God, but I know this might not fit with all Christian's perspectives.

I think I just want to know where I fit in...or not, as the case may be! Is there such thing as a 'non literal Christian'?!

I think you could fit in anywhere you want to. I go to church regularly and find that there are so many view points (some very radical and more liberal than I'd ever expected) and views on God and religion in my Catholic congregation.

Best wishes to you.

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

itsveryyou It sounds like you are in the liberal stream of Christianity. If you are interested in nature then see if there is a Forest Church near you.

[Vivacia]

Sorry Buffy, I should have put it in quotes to indicate that that's the Islamic perspective rather than mine

[buffyp]

In your opinion he wasn't. Others, including myself completely disagree. Maybe the op does agree with you maybe she doesn't however that is for her to determine for herself.

[Vivacia]

How about Islam? Jesus was a worthy man, but not the son of a god.

[HappySpills]

Maybe you're a deist.

[fulltothebrim]

You don't sound christian to me- but a very spiritual person.

Perhaps some reading would help on this- and outside of the Abrahamic faiths.

You could try reading about ancient or tribal spiritualities, wicca/pagan, the Greek archetypes, old Pagan or Norse religions. Immanence or feminist spirituality may interest you too.

The bible nor the tem commandments have a monopoly on decent human values- they merely reflect the basics of co-operation of human community found all over the world.

It is possible to be spiritual without believing in god. I would suggest looking outside christianity for your answers, don't confine your explorations.

[Italiangreyhound]

OutwiththeOutCrowd maybe the Unitarians are for you!

For me the C of E has it all, from low evangelical let's praise and wave our hands in the air to deep silence and retreats, to debate and so much more. and if you do not like the local C of E you can always try and another and find it utterly different.

For me the resurrection is very central. If Christ was not raised then what is our hope for? Just for this life? That is good but it is not enough (IMHO) for a religion.

I do really hope you find your spiritual home itsveryyou, but many Christians do think of it as a journey or a pilgrimage so rather than a home one sits down and gets comfortable in, it is a journey alongside fellows and fellow-etes (what is the female for fellow!) who are going along the same path but perhaps at a different rate or perhaps at a tangent here or there! he older I get the more comfortable I am with this and with trying to find the good in others faith. So I may well have some things in common with the Unitarians!

But for me, in spiritual terms, it is Christ who journeys with us, and that is what makes the difference (for me).

Good luck.

[OutwiththeOutCrowd]

Possibly irrelevant if you are looking at matters from a purely spiritual point of view, but - in the USA - a higher percentage of Unitarians are college graduates than is the case for other religious groups.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#/media/File:Educational_Ranking_by_Religious_Group_-_2001.png

I suppose quite a few people would find that the acceptance of different viewpoints within Unitarianism creates a sense of not being properly anchored down into one firm belief system shared by all. Personally, I would quite like the freedom of singing in harmony with others but not necessarily singing the same notes! But I can see that it might appear too 'anything goes' for many people.

(According to the online Belief-O-Matic quiz I did, Unitarianism is my spiritual home!)

Maybe you could try the Belief-O-Matic quiz too itsveryyou and see what comes up.

[itsveryyou]

outwith I think Unitarian speaks to me more than any other 'organised' type of religious group I've come across - thanks for the idea, will explore it!

[niminypiminy]

I think Unitarians are a spectrum - some wouldn't define themselves as religious at all and are non-theistic; some are closer to, and see themselves as an offshoot fro Christianity.

In my period of 'don't know whether I believe or not', when Christianity seemed still like a leap of faith too far I thought about the Unitarians. But in the end it just seemed so flimsy, so insubstantial. Christianity, with its 2000 years of tradition and thought and prayer just seemed more solid, more substantial. And more spacious, too. It has more room for questions (and most of the questions you can come up with have already been asked and answered in all kinds of ways).

But Unitarianism might have things to offer that I didn't see, or didn', in the end, want.

[OutwiththeOutCrowd]

Hi TooBusyByHalf, some Unitarians think of themselves as being 'Quakers with hymns'! So if you like communal singing, maybe it's something for you. I would think that more orthodox Christians would be a bit iffy about the lack of belief in the trinity. However, some progressive Christians might be heading into Unitarian territory.

Warning: I'm an atheist and this is all just gleaned from reading rather than insider knowledge!

[TooBusyByHalf]

Interesting, Unitarianism, never heard of them before. Social justice, human rights etc sounds right up my street (also the lack of belief in resurrection and other doctrine which makes it an easier 'sell' anyway); but websites can be misleading...
What do CofE type Christians make of them? Are they a bit like Quakers in a way?

[OutwiththeOutCrowd]

Hi itsveryyou, could you perhaps be a Unitarian?
www.unitarian.org.uk/pages/faith

[itsveryyou]

Hmm, well CofE is where I was baptized and married, children baptized there and the schools they attend are CofE. We're currently overseas and have tried Episcopalian but it felt too traditional, and where we are the alternative is either Baptist (definitely not for me!) or mega churches which are auditoriums and not at all what feels like church. Wil go back to CofE when in UK again. It's a journey of discovery, I suppose..!

[Italiangreyhound]

Yes, there are many people who have quite a liberal theology. What type of church do you go to?

I hope your faith brings you joy and comfort and expands you life. And that you feel you fit with at least some of the people in your church.

PS Lots of Christians believe in the big bang (I would imagine, I am sure I do... and I like the TV programme Big Bang too!