Baptising DCs: DH religious but I'm atheist

[whatwasIthinkingof]

Right, I have thought about this too long and need some perspective. DH is religious, I am atheist. DH wants new baby DC2 to be baptised into Catholic church. DC1 was baptised and I went along with it despite being uncomfortable about it. I spoke to the priest beforehand about what should I do as I am a non-believer and he just said I didn’t have to say anything and as DH is practising the religion it was fine. But I felt so uncomfortable at DC1’s baptism staying silent whilst the priest asked us if we renounce the devil and all that stuff. I felt horribly fraudulent standing there even though I’d been honest, - because basically I am meant to be happy about it.

The issue is that I hate the idea that the kids will be told what to believe and have no choice about whether to go to church. I don’t hate religion, think there are some good aspects to it i.e. morality, community, I just don’t believe in the magic type stuff. DH is very serious about it and will make the kids attend, get confirmed and all the rest of it (this sounds awful but DH is actually an amazing father in a lot of ways).

I feel very torn as I want to be there at DC2 baptism and be part of it as I want us to be united in family occasions like this, BUT, I don’t believe it myself so feel unbelievably uncomfortable standing there at the front feeling so conflicted. I don’t know what to do about it. If I refuse for DC2 to be baptised, DH will probably go and do it anyway without me as it’s so important to him. Also I feel I should because I went along with it for DC1 so why not this time.

The godparents we have chosen both times are really nice people but
are more DH’s friends. I went along with it as it was so important to DH and it felt like such a non-negotiable. Kind of feel like I have no part in this baptism. Find it hard to talk to DH about religion as he is quite rigid about it, he will just say that I have rejected religion so it’s me that’s turned my back.

Before we got married we talked about how we would bring up children and I was honest about my own lack of religious faith and DH said he would not compromise on his beliefs and would want any kids to be brought up in his faith. We reached a bit of a stalemate on the whole issue and as I was unsure whether we would be able to have any children I didn’t think much more about it, - wrong of me I know. But, 2 lovely children later, this problem has reared its ugly head and I feel really sad and hopeless about it. I feel I am making a lot of sacrifices for something actually quite big and I feel I won’t be able to protect my children from being told to believe this stuff. I feel that DH has compromised on a lot for our life but on this issue he is not willing to compromise.

Do I just have to suck it up and accept that this is what happens if you marry someone who has such strong religious beliefs? Have I inadvertently agreed to it as I have gone along with it before? Is there anything I can do that might make me feel better about it? I have no one to talk to about this as family and friends are either deeply on one side or the other and I don’t know anyone else in a similar situation to talk things through with. Realise I’m asking a lot of MN but my brain hurts!

[superzero]

That should have been,if one of you holds religious beliefs and the other doesn't it is inevitable that the children's' beliefs will only match one parents eventually and whether they are baptised or not won't determine what they decide to believe later on,there are many influences.

[superzero]

I was baptised,went to Sunday school but when I was about 10 I realised that my parents were at the best agnostic and probably both athiests.They just don't hold religious views but wanted to keep the older family members happy by doing what was expected.I think they said they didn't want their views to prevent us from being allowed to marry in a church if we wanted to later on.Churches used to be a lot stricter about that sort of thing.
I don't mind at all.Your children will understand when they are older.if one of you holds str

[happypotamus]

I am Catholic and DH is an atheist. I did get DD baptised. DH did come to the ceremony but not to the mass beforehand (in our church the christening service is immediately after morning mass). Obviously he didn't join in with the affirmation of faith or any prayers. I don't think he decided until the last minute whether he was going to attend or not.
He reluctantly agreed to the baptism, reasoning that the ceremony didn't mean anything to him as he didn't believe in any of it but was very important to me. Now, 2yrs later, I take DD to church (not every week as I am often working on Sunday mornings), and when she is old enough he will explain what he believes and doesn't believes. She will decide for herself what she believes. We agreed before she was born that we would both be able to explain what we believe/ don't believe and let her choose. At 2 she knows she and I go to church and Daddy doesn't. It is similar to the fact that she and I eat meat and Daddy doesn't. She is not yet old enough and hasn't really asked why this happens but I expect she will soon
I hope you and your DH can both find a way round this.

[Succubi]

OP you should go. It is after all just a man in a dress spouting mumbo jumbo and sprinkling some water.

My husband doesn't like Star Wars but he has agreed to go to the new Disney films with me. You do things for people you love even if you don't like it/agree with it. I wouldn't worry about it. Go with the flow.

Your kids will find there own way whether as Catholics or as Atheists. All that matters is that they are happy, healthy and good people.

[MinesAPintOfTea]

Gemma this isn't the case when one if the parents is practising and willing to take the child to church weekly so I can relax in peace for a couple of hours

[gemmal88]

I was brought up in Church of Scotland, my Oh is an Atheist.

Christening a child is a parents promise to bring them up in the church and to learn about God, as we were not in a position where this would happen, my daughter was not christened.

I don't practice so it would be hypocritical to have her Christened. You shouldn't go and make a promise that you have no intention to keep.


It really irritates me when people just get kids Christened for the sake of it, like an excuse to have a party. (I'm not saying you're doing this btw, it's just something that annoys me on topic!)

[wontletmesignin]

I had this problem with my ds father.
I told him the wisest thing to do, which just so happen to be my beliefs. He did agree though.


Was to simply allow our ds to grow up and make up his own mind about what religion, if any, he would choose to follow. Rather than being given no choice by doing it when he was too young to understand.

[VinoTime]

"DH will probably go and do it anyway without me as it’s so important to him."



I can't believe what I'm reading. Did you suddenly croak it and leave him as a lone parent who gets to make decisions like this without you? I have literally just balked at the above statement. Sorry, but I find the idea of him doing that behind your back unforgivable.

I am, to all intents and purposes, an "atheist". I don't believe in anything, but I have always, always made a point of never pushing that on anybody. I come from a family of devout Catholics and while we don't agree in terms of beliefs, I respect that they can be believe in fairies and Neverland if that is their choice to do so. I don't like having religion pushed on me but by the same token, I would never force my disbelief on any person.

I didn't get my daughter baptised. I was the first in the family not to. Personally, I feel a child should be allowed to make up their own mind as to what they want to believe. If my daughter gets a bit older and wants to get baptised, I'll phone the church immediately, comforted by the fact it has been her choice.

I also knew that she would never learn about religion from me, which is why I sent her to the lovely little, nondenominational Catholic school in our town. There, she gets a thorough education in the catholic faith and enjoys coming home to debate it all with me. I have always been upfront with her about not believing in God, but I have also assured her that if she wants to, it is up to her. Between the school and myself, I'm confident that I will end up with a grown daughter who has made an informed decision regarding her beliefs.

I think unfortunately, because you got dc1 baptised OP, you're going to have to for dc2. I also think, however, that you should have put your foot down the first time round. Your husbands beliefs are important to him and from what I'm reading, you have always respected that. What I'm not reading is his respect for your lack of them

[sashh]

OP

Being atheist and having a lot of RC family I get exactly where you are coming from.

For those of you who attend church services Baptism is not that different to other services. But for an atheist it is something close to a scene from Rosemary's baby, in an RC Baptism there is quite a lot of rejecting Satan etc.

But OP I think you have to let dc2 be baptised, mainly because dc1 is. If your children attend RC schools they will be taught what wonderful things the sacraments are and how wonderful it is to take part.

Can you imagine how it will feel to be told this and know that you were excluded? That your parents did such a wonderful (or that everyone around him feels is wonderful) thing for an elder sibling but not you?

Then there will be holy communion, your older dc can take part, your younger one can't.

And you mention your dh going behind your back. It's not just him, there is his family as well. I'm convinced a couple of relations (not officially baptised) were baptised by a close relative during bath time because to that relative it was terrible for the children not to be baptised and if they died they would go to hell and she would feel it was her duty to baptise them.

[kreecherlivesupstairs]

We were in a similar position to the OP. I am atheist, DH is a committed and practicing catholic.
Our DD was baptisted, I took her to all the lessons and preparation classes for confirmation and first communion.
Since we have left it up to her to make her mind up about whether she should go to church etc. she's come down firmly on the agnostic side of the fence.
It doesn't bother either me or DH.
IMO, you shouldn't think too much about it.

[ILoveAFullFridge]

On the contrary: let him organise it, go, sit (stand?) at the front, but do not participate in any way. You are the mother and your views are equally valid, equally true and equally important.

At one of the earliest earliest services involving our dc, the religious leader said that we could not include dh because he was not the right religion. I said that in that case we could not include me, either. Our status WRT the child was not defined by religion but by the fact that he is the father and I am the mother. End of. Somewhat flummoxed them!

I have since found a more inclusive community where we practice our religion and include non-co-religionist partners in the way that they find comfortable. If they want to participate, then we find a way that they can participate. If they don't want to participate, then there is no pressure to do so, but we encourage them to at least be present as a parent. As is their right. But if they don't want to do even that, then we accept their decision.

[specialsubject]

if it is done when the child is a baby, it can't be brainwashed and it is just meaningless water throwing. Get it done quick while the child won't notice.

your bigger issue is your husband's apparent utter intolerance to any views except his own. He is of course perfectly entitled to his own beliefs.

Let him organise it but don't go. And as marriage is about respect and compromise, you need to ensure that your kids are brought up with tolerance of all faiths, and the freedom to make up their own minds.

if he won't do this you've got far bigger problems, so let's hope he shows what is called 'Christian charity'.

[glorious]

Clearly I'm sheltered then I've never come across a gnostic. Must lurk around here more often!

Anyway, sorry op, bit of a tangent. Probably this debate has made you feel even less positive about religion!

[headinhands]

Actually there's a poster floating about here who was dabbling with the belief of the OT god actually being a demiurge, and that god didn't reveal himself until Jesus. Think the movement was Gnosticism?

[glorious]

Sorry I've just seen you were only talking about Christians and Muslims disagreeing so ignore my comments on Judaism.

[glorious]

I understand your point about atheism headinhands, I just don't see things the same way. I think rejecting particular claims about the nature of God or revelation is different to rejecting claims about God's existence. But I see the analogy you're making.

I'm sure you're right that many Christians and Muslims sadly disagree that they worship the same God but many agree too. Plenty of Christians believe all sorts of things I'm heartily ashamed to be associated with, but I thought the commonality of the Abrahamic religions was a mainstream belief. I may be wrong though. There's far less room for dispute that Christians and Jews worship the same God surely? I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone of either faith refute that but perhaps I'm very sheltered

[headinhands]

The point I was making was that a Christian will the same opinion of the other 1'999 religions as an atheist. They both reject their claims.

[headinhands]

And atheism is the rejection of the claims of all other religions.

[headinhands]

In my analogy you could use any of the other gods man has ever believed in (although I'm not sure the Allah is Yahweh and Yahweh is Allah belief is an idea most Christians/Muslims would go a bundle on.)

[glorious]

It's not really the point of the thread but incidentally headinhands the Allah of Islam is the same god as the Christian (and indeed Jewish) God. And atheism strictly speaking means the belief that there is no god at all, not the rejection of another religion's god(s).

I think it's difficult to understand just how important this could be for the DP if you aren't religious. And I'd echo fridge in saying plenty of religious people of all faiths still believe in evolution and critical thought - in fact even the Catholic church encourages Catholics to make their own judgement on issues and teaches that they should never go against their own genuinely held conscience.

Having said that I do also think the OP is in a very difficult position and respect her need to be honest and maintain her integrity.

[MinesAPintOfTea]

The healthy respect for each others beliefs means that whilst I support dh taking ds to church every Sunday we will try to avoid catholic school so that he doesn't grow up in a single faith setting. Plus scientific discussion and a respect for each other's beliefs.

But I agree you need to make your peace weigh your partner's deeply held beliefs before marriage and children or move on before that life-long tie is there. Look on the bright side: if he takes then both to church every week that's 90 minutes of peace

[ILoveAFullFridge]

But for some believers the rites are very important.

The rite does not change the child's freedom to make their own choices later on.

And BTW being a believer in god and or religion does not necessarily wipe out every brain cell and the ability to make decisions based upon empirical evidence. I, for one, believe in the existence of deity and also in evolution. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[TheWave]

Exactly saint.

[saintmerryweather]

surely then a child can be baptised later just as easily if they choose to believe?

[SmilesandSunshine]

Have not RTFT, but the baptising will not turn them into a catholic, when they're older, if they wish, they can renounce it/ become an atheist