Showing respect for other people's beliefs...

[curlew]

I think it's very important to be polite and considerate to other people. I'm not sure about the "respect" word, because to me it sounds a little deferential, but certainly consideration and politeness.

Which would include not challenging people about their faith unless I felt it was potentially damaging to someone else or was having a direct impact on me or someone else, or if I was in a discussion/argument about different beliefs.

But how far does this go? Do I have to be polite and considerate about people who believe in horoscopes, or Vedic flying or the Great Arclesiezure? Or can I restrict it to the world's great religions?

[BackOnlyBriefly]

You can't really 'believe' in market forces because those are real. If someone says they do then they are using the word 'believe'' to mean approval. As in "I believe in washing the floor daily'.

I can lack respect for those who do approve of them though. My disapproval isn't confined to beliefs.

isn't not expressing lack of respect the same thing as respect?

Not at all. If I see a christian or muslim on the street I don't rush up to tell them they are wrong, but I don't respect them for it.

If I see the same person later outside the school with a sign demanding that his religion be taught exclusively then I'll tell him what I think of his religion.

Worship is something that someone with a belief may or may not do so that's not the same thing. Anyway not all beliefs even involve an entity to be worshiped.

Also even if I somehow believed that the Christian god was real I still wouldn't worship him because I'm opposed to everything he allegedly stands for.

[curlew]

isnt not expressing lack of respect the same thing as respect?"


Absolutely not! There are loads of people whose beliefs I utterly dispose, and I would hate to think that because I don't make a scene about it in public they might I have an ounce of respect for them!

[GoshAnneGorilla]

There's a bit of straw manning going on here.

Most people you encounter do not support FGM, stoning, terrorism, or believe that homeopathy can cure serious illnesses.

Unless you're implying that Muslims secretly support the first three.

Most religious people believe in God and undertake various acts of worship in their lives that reflect this.

[CoteDAzur]

"I respect their position as they are fellow human beings"

Moral relativism at its finest. There is no right or wrong, so everyone's views are worth the same. As long as it is held by at least one human being, any viewpoint is worthy of respect.

I disagree. Respectfully

Every person deserves a minimum of respect. Every conviction does not.

An idea/conviction/viewpoint/belief deserves (or doesn't) based on its merits. Irrational or violent ones, for example, don't deserve my respect.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Crescent - exactly. Plenty of people have opinions others find disagreeable or unpleasant. Views on the death penalty, to give one example, vary hugely, regardless of religious belief.

Or is it what causes that person to hold those opinions that is more important then the opinion itself? So believing in the death penalty because you believe it saves on the costs of keeping someone alive in prison* is an opinion worthy of greater respect then believing that the death penalty is religiously sanctioned?

On to lighter subjects. So OP, if some colleagues in your office were discussing their horoscopes, would you just ignore them, or would you feel obliged to make your disagreement with horoscopes known?

[Treen44444]

I think it comes down to what is perceived as disrespectful. Everyone has a right to be offended but is that offence right. I don't know. For example, the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed. It seemed to blow out of all proportion.

Also, it is the level of judgement given by religious philosophy. Judgement of its followers and non-followers. For me this makes it open to judgement and questioning. The oppression delivered by religion, also, means religion should be questioned. As oppression anywhere should be.

I think the other thing is that people explain their beliefs by reciting verses. I sometimes wonder what their personal opinion would be.

Moderate religious people will bear the brunt of this debate because they are the ones that allow religions to hide and deflect from what they really represent. They like to hand pick parts of a religion that is helpful to them( which is understandable). It would be more progressive to highlight which parts of religious texts they don't agree with.

[tuffie]

Well said Crescent moon and GoshAnneGorilla.
What irritates me is the way certain opinions are deemed to be only held by religious people.
For example, atheists are always complaining about religious people being homophobic, when more of my atheist friends have a problem with homosexuality than do my religious friends. Indeed one in particular, a firm non believer, is absolutely horrified that her son has just declared himself to be gay. I - the believer - am the one trying to convince her that she should not be horrified, he is still the same person, and she needs to support him.

[claraschu]

H L Mencken said:
"We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."

Or, at greater length:

"True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge."

He is always amusing, I think

[CoteDAzur]

Is it homophobic to not want your son to be gay? I don't have nothing against factory workers but I'd hate to see DS become one. I also have nothing against domestic cleaners but I'd hate for DD to be one. I also couldn't care less if other girls get pregnant and be teenage mums but I would be horrified if this happens to my DD.

It's about a parent's aspirations for her child, imho.

[killpeppa]

can we all agree to disagree?

as for the gay, cleaner, teen mum comment. I think it was slightly uncalled for.

I'd be happy for either of my children if they were gay, as long as they are true to themselves and happy.
I'd be proud of my child no matter what job they had as I'd respect their work ethic & hope they had learnt it from me and my husband.
As for being a teen mum, I was a teen mum by choice & I can firmly say my mum is very proud of me.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

There's a bit of straw manning going on here. If you mean my posts then I recommend you read them to the end.

Most people you encounter do not support FGM, stoning, terrorism, or believe that homeopathy can cure serious illnesses.

No they don't, but you can't have a blanket "I will respect all beliefs" while such people exist. You can only have a "I will respect those who hold beliefs I don't find too disturbing".

In practise that's what everyone does, but some people claim to do this "respecting all beliefs" and it makes no sense. You'd have to be a pretty vile person to respect all the things that people believe.

[CoteDAzur]

"Uncalled for"? The point of the post was that it is entirely possible to not judge or be prejudiced against all XYZs while not wanting one's DC to be XYZ. (Not homophobic but horrified to realise DS is gay, nothing against teen mums but hate DD to be one, etc.

[tuffie]

What an amazingly arrogant and prejudiced attitude Cote.
Like killpeppa I would be happy for my children to be any of those things and would support them as long as they were happy.
And hating ones son to be gay - yes I would call that homophobic.

[killpeppa]

yes cote 'uncalled for'

I would love & be happy for my children as long as they were happy.
I couldn't care whether they want to be drag queens or join the marines as long as they are happy that's all that matters to me

[curlew]

"For example, atheists are always complaining about religious people being homophobic"
I don't complain about religious people being homophobic- unless they are- but I do complain about Christianity, and Islam, being homophobic. Because they are.
The thing about people of faith that I find particularly infuriating is the cherry picking "I'm a Catholic- but I don't actually believe the 6 major tenets of the Catholic faith" . That's actually being "not a Catholic". I have much more time for the people who accept everything- including the "Holy Monkeys in th Vatican" (obscure literary reference casually dropped there- hope someone picks it up........) - than the people who obviously see how unacceptable some of it is, so just casually drop the unacceptable bits.

[curlew]

Oh, and I'm with Cote on this. I would have no problem at all with my son being gay. But I hope he isn't. Because we live in a world where gay people have harder lives than straight people, and I don't want him to have a hard life.

[curlew]

In the same way, I am glad that he is reasonably good looking, clever and sporty. Because his life will probably be easier that way.

[killpeppa]

no I don't complain about religious people being homophobic- I complain about anyone being homophobic. it's vile.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Curlew - I think you're rather too eager to give Cote a pass there. From her comment, she equated being gay as a state as something she didn't want for her child, just as she didn't want them to be factory workers or teenage parents.

No mention whatsoever of because society is homophobic.