Atheists on belief threads. Why?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

While there are sometimes interesting threads where atheists and believers discuss and debate religion, it seems to me that increasingly atheists only come onto threads here to poopoo or disrespect the beliefs of others.

Am I right about this and if not then what is the reasoning behind the posts where atheists call the beliefs of others rubbish etc?

[WhatKindofFool]

But to get back to the OP, I agree with Floaty

[marjproops]

I always wonder how when people who say they dont believe/want to believe seem to know all about what the Bible says and what Christians are supposed to be like? and they're looking for ways to catch a Christian out if a Christian says the 'slightest' thing wrong in their eyes? Christians are human with human failings and virtues same as everyone else.

Thing is at the end of the day, we need to RESPECT each others beliefs/non-beliefs. we may not ACCEPT them, but RESPECT them.

I had a friend who was of another 'ilk' and she kept making a million digs at me about my beliefs, one day I decided to make a 'slight' dig at hers (as a test) and she blew up at me.

I said 'why are you so quick to talk to me about your beliefs yet you're not willing to hear mine?' she actually apologised and we're still friends. we agree to disagree and not let that come between out friendship.

i mean, Cliff Richard is a Christian, Hank Marvin a JW. Theyve been best frinds for years and dont let their slight difference of opinion come between them (as far as I see).

unfortunately there will always be the 'lunatic fringe/fanatic' in ALL groups of people and unfortunately everyone is is guilty by association.

therefeore :

are ALL muslims terrorists?
ALL christians deluded bible freaks?
ALL teenagers knife-weilding hoodies?
ALL old people grumpy old .....

by all means its good to have discussions and ask question but be prepared for the answer (wether you agree or not) if you're asking someones opinion without running anyone down.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

There is a huge difference between posting a different opinion, debating and sneering. I love the debating threads.

Ellie, where does the quote in your 10:35 post come from? I don't think I have seen anything like that here.

[MostlyLovingLurchers]

I post quite a lot in this section. This section is not just religion - it is also philosophy and spirituality and it is perfectly possible to be interested in any of these areas without having a faith. I don't post on threads where it is clear that the posters are not after a debate but want to share their experiences - the religious chat threads for eg, or currently a woo thread where they have asked not to have to defend their beliefs, and that has been respected.

Otherwise, in an open forum, anyone is free to express their opinion. I have no interest in hurting peoples feelings, but i am not going to leave unchallenged something i disagree with because it is a matter of faith (any faith). I have some views that others will think are nonsense and when i post about them i expect to be challenged - this is healthy and helps me look at what i believe more critically than i might otherwise. There are no end of faith forums out there if you only want to encounter like-minded people.

[hiddenhome]

From a believer's point of view - Believers feel the same love for God that the atheists feel for their partners and children, so it is extremely hurtful when some of the atheists denigrate the believers, but I don't expect they're even aware of this.

I have yet to encounter any aggressive believers on this site (maybe I missed their posts though) who are as dismissive, sarcastic or condescending in the same way that some of the atheists are.

It is an open site and anybody is entitled to post on any of the threads available, but it does sometimes feel that some of the atheists just enjoy taking the piss out of the believers because we can't prove that what we believe is true. What we do feel is love though and to have that denigrated isn't the best feeling out there.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Bunny, what do you mean by blind faith?

[hermioneweasley]

What sort of comments do the believers find offensive/denigrating?

Likening the being you believe in to Thor, Zeus, apollo? The phrase "imaginary friend"? "giant sky pixie "?

Or would it have to get personal - implying that believers must be stupid in some way?

[BunnyLebowski]

"Bunny, what do you mean by blind faith?"

Sigh. There is no scientific evidence of God. Not one solitary piece of evidence.

Believing in something which cannot be proved = blind faith.

[greencolorpack]

I have debated religion for years and find that often people come on shouting and deriding beliefs as a means of getting attention. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Last time I got into an argument with an angry sneery atheist I asked him why he posted like that. He was a young man from a Christian home and his father had died and he was hurting because of it. As soon as I treated his grief with respect we got on absolutely fine and had a polite discussion.

In religious discussions, 99 per cent of interaction is based on people projecting their own ideas onto the person they are debating with. It takes a lot of work to get through other peoples prejudices. But sometimes it is worthwhile. The nature of religious debates online is fascinating to me, more fascinating than most evangelising now (as everything has been said, over and over ad nauseam).

[Sunnywithshowers]

I'm an atheist and occasionally come in this section out of interest, but rarely comment. Despite my personal lack of belief Christianity (in particular) has a huge influence on the UK and it's interesting. I like reading the debates.

I've also posted on the gratitude thread. Unlike some other posters I don't feel grateful 'to' a deity for good things in my life, but I can still acknowledge my gratitude.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I find calling or insinuating stupidity is offensive and denigrating. The imaginary friend thing is just that.

[greencolorpack]

Dione you could ignore the posters who say that. I have often found you can control the tone of debate by simply ignoring bad behaviour. There are usually enou polite posters about that you can engage in the debates without having to take insults.

[ubik]

I remember reading an interesting article by Sam Harris explaining what religious faith feels like to atheists. He used the example of the log fire.

A log fire in your home is a lovely thing, all humans love to sit round an open fire on a cold night, it exudes warmth and comfort at a primal level. Scientific evidence shows log fires are extremely bad for you, they aggravate asthma, give off harmful gases, you really shouldn't have one in your home. Yet so many atheists will not listen, persist in having open fires because it feels so nice.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Bunny, are you something only exists if there is scientific evidence? Also, what is the difference between faith and blind faith?

[Thistledew]

As an atheist, I sometimes post on debate threads (as opposed to prayer threads) for the following reasons:

a) the culture of religion is so prevalent that it does impact on my daily life despite the fact I do not follow any of them;

b) when the question is asked "does this bit of doctrine mean X or Y?" it is a perfectly valid response to say "it only means what you believe it to mean- it has no external reality that makes either answer 'right' or 'wrong'";

c) it is my sincerely held view that there would be less conflict, bigotry and oppression in the world if everyone accepted b) to be true. Whilst I am never going to change the whole world to my viewpoint, I think it is valid and worthwhile to try to make a few incremental changes, one person at a time.

[ethelb]

Thistledew b) is moral relativism. Atheism is the absence of belief. It may, but does not necessarily follow.

[Thistledew]

I disagree strongly that "atheism is the absence of belief". It is the belief in the absence of a deity, which in itself is a belief of sorts.

I'm afraid I don't follow the rest of the point you are trying to make.

[InSearchOfPerfection]

There is no scientific evidence of God. Not one solitary piece of evidence.

Believing in something which cannot be proved = blind faith.

No, believing in something that can not be proven IS faith.
It's not blind because that means you haven';t open your eyes and if you did then you would know. And also that you are at the very least naive and a bit simple to keep your eyes shut (and not see the light).
And it's not false because it hasn't been proven yet as long as the opposite hasn't been proven as such (eg God doesn't exist).
So on a 'scientific' pov the only thing we can say is 'I don't know'.

The reality is that LOTS of things around us haven't been 'proven' incl and especially in science. But we accept them with FAITH.

For example, geometry principles (such as 2 lines cross on only one point) are exactly that. Faith or the acceptance that the paradigm as the truth. It looks like it's working well like this and we accept (but can't prove it!).

but, this isn't the truth because we live on earth so 2 lines on earth will cross more than once (there is some other type of geometry that actually talk about geometry on a sphere).

So who is accepting thing with 'blind faith'? religious people, scientists, all of us?

I actually think that we all do accept lots of things in FAITH. Some of them have nothing to do with religion and others do.
But no one should be feeling superior because they are using scientific evidence for the simple reason that science IS based on faith (or so called definitions) too.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Well, some threads in this section are open discussions so of interest to believers and rational people as well. Threads which are about specifics of one mythology or sharing rituals or whatever - i leave those alone, same as I leave the dogs/cats/chickens topics alone, because they are of no interest or relevance to me.

Discussing religions from a political viewpoint is something worth doing though. SOmeone upthread demanded that their beliefs be respected. Well, no. I agree that everyone's right to believe nonsense should be respected. You can believe whatever crap you like, that's your problem. You're not entitled to insist that other people take your silly stories and imaginary friends seriously, though. What most people resent about mythology and superstition is the way believers insist on having special privileges for themselves and their imaginary friends, and that's what rational people are objecting to.

[ethelb]

@thistledew fair enough. My point is that being an atheist doesnt mean you are a moral relativist. And vice versa. I thought you were suggesting they were the same thing in your post. Op wasnt talking about moral relativism, she was talking about atheism.

[Annunziata]

There was a terrible thread a while ago asking for prayers for a sick child, someone came on to say praying was a load of nonsense or whatever. I was really shocked. I expect sneery, horrible attitudes to stay out of those threads and I don't think that that is demanding special treatment.

Any other thread is fair go.

[marissab]

It's ok. Christians often feel they have to jump in on threads about paganism too. Everyone is at it. When i am discussing my beliefs on pagan threads, i just sigh when i see someone on there calling me a satanist or likining witchcraft to occultism. Theres a thread further down about waybaloo on ceebeebies and someone has said that it's feeding witchcraft and the occult in to childrens minds. They'll become sick and ill and it's the devils work. what???? Rubbish. there are people of all beliefs who like to bereate others. Can't we all agree to disagree?

[Thistledew]

Ethelb- my post was not about moral relativism but about the precedence that people of faith often seem to demand for their beliefs over the beliefs of people who do not believe.

To give a more detailed example:

A Christian might say "This passage in the Bible means that God tells us that X is true". The inference is that because their view of X is backed up by God, then their view should carry more weight than the view of the atheist who says that X is not true at all. It is perfectly valid for the atheist to say that there is no god, therefore the truth of X is solely your opinion, and your opinion carries no greater weight than does mine. It is just your opinion, no more no less.

This becomes important when, for example, the Christian is saying "being gay is wrong". It becomes harder to defend an irrational, illogical and bigoted view when you take away the answer of "because God says so" to the question "why do you actually believe that?"

[waltermittymissus]

SGB do you really find it so difficult to make your point without using words like nonsense?

It's goady and unnecessary.

[waltermittymissus]

It's worth mentioning that believing in god is not necessarily the same as believing the teaching of certain religions.

For example; I believe in god. I don't believe in a god that persecutes homosexuality. I don't believe in a god that thinks women are inferior and should be treated as such.

I believe that the men who developed these religions made those stipulations for their own benefit and the benefit of their churches as organisations.

Believing in god is not the same as subscribing to an organised religion.