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Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

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Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Philosophy/religion

DD anounced this morning that God didn't exist...

54 replies

LilRedWG · 11/10/2011 09:29

... as she has never seen him. How do I answer that one. She attends Sunday School and I church, but I've always struggled with the whole, "bloke on a cloud" issue as my Sunday School taught me that the bible was literal and it's left me somewhat confused as an adult - I do not want DD to feel like this, but I also don't want her to dismiss faith out of hand!

I tried the whole God is everywhere and a tiny bit of him is very deep down in us all - she looked out of the window, couldn't see him and announced that he wasn't and that she'd know if he was inside her - arghhh! I've not handled well.

Any advice gratefully received please.

OP posts:

Report

chrchrch · 16/10/2011 10:07

We all get to choose whether to put out faith into empiricism or other equally valid forms of rationality. Most people able to work beyond only empiricism don't feel the urge to restrict themselves once they've broadened their horizons. There is no restriction on tools to expand awareness. Even in exoteric philosophy there is much to explore. Does OP need to have her and her DD's horizons limited?

Rational · 16/10/2011 10:12

I think, as I stated already, that she needs to tell her daughter the truth. That she is in fact right, there is no evidence of god but that some people choose to believe he/she exists regardless. It would also be desirable if she told the child that some people live very full, happy and good lives without this leap of faith.

Appreciating the wonders of the universe without attributing it to a supernatural being doesn't make it any less wonderful.

CoteDAzur · 16/10/2011 10:26

LilRed - Your DD is clearly very intelligent and unafraid to go against mainstream thought at the age of 5. You should feel lucky and encourage her to think for herself, rather than indoctrinate her to conform.

I agree with Rational, you should tell her she is right, there is no evidence that God exists but some people want to believe he does anyway.

chrchrch · 16/10/2011 11:11

Many of us have said already that the leap of faith into empiricism, followed by indoctrination that it is the only form of rationality, is a tad limited. Is fear the currency that drives such fanatics to close down all horizons? Try googling a bit more, and if the questions exceed the answers, then try exploring further exactly what truth means.

OP is not indoctrinating, indeed she is brave enough to question and wise enough to explore for herself. Her DD has a good chance of finding the truth without anyone limiting her to empiricism.

Rational · 16/10/2011 15:41

I don't find the truth limiting. I don't need to believe in supernatural beings to complete my world view. Atheism isn't limiting, it's liberating.

Can you please describe these'fanatics' you describe further? I'm not sure who you're referring to.

MaryBS · 16/10/2011 15:42

truth, what is that? :o

picnicbasketcase · 16/10/2011 15:46

I'd tell her that if that's what she feels is true, that's fine. But that you do believe, and that's fine too. Everyone is different and you shouldn't try to force anyone into believing whatever you do. I think that's a simple enough message for a 5 year old.

NotJustKangaskhan · 16/10/2011 16:47

Take what she said for face value and discuss based on that - she said she doesn't think there is a God because she can't see it and she would know if something was inside of her. Discuss the many things that we cannot see but still exist (gravity, magnetism, thoughts, the wind) and things inside her body she wouldn't know about with the mindset of explaining that the world is far more wonderous and complicated than saying something exists or doesn't based on sight rather than trying to explain faith or God. No matter how she will think about it later, showing things are not always as they appear is a good lesson for any path.

SolidGoldVampireBat · 16/10/2011 16:51

Make sure you tell her that plenty of people agree with her about there being no gods, though plenty of other people believe in one deity or, in some cases, more than one. Belief in gods is ludicrous and it's not all that surprising that young children understand as much. However, if people want to believe in gods, ghosts, astrology and homeopathy it's up to them, they just have no entitlement to have their beliefs taken seriously or agreed with by more rational people.

MaryBS · 16/10/2011 17:35

Don't worry SGB, I'm still praying for you :)

Rational · 16/10/2011 17:51

Praying's harmless enough, if it makes you feel better go for it, but it really is quite meaningless to share that fact with an atheist. They may, in rare cases, take some kind of comfort that it's making you happy.

Franup · 16/10/2011 17:59

I'm a dyed in the wool atheist. Not christianed, from atheist stock - although went to my local catchment CofE school. I have never believed in or had any notion of God/Jesus/Heaven at all. I have moved from a fairly anti-religious standpoint to a more tolerant one over the years.

Thing is both my dds - 5 and 8 - believe in God! I don't argue against them, I just say some people believe and some don't. It will be interesting to see where they end up in years to come. I guess from the opposite angle it will be the same fo you.

I have still had a happy and fulfulling life by the way.

SolidGoldVampireBat · 16/10/2011 21:40

It is of course as well to tell a child that other people do believe in all kinds of crap and that it doesn't do to be rude to them about it. But that if she doesn't believe it, that's fine.

Rational · 16/10/2011 21:51

"It is of course as well to tell a child that other people do believe in all kinds of crap and that it doesn't do to be rude to them about it. But that if she doesn't believe it, that's fine."

Lol.

I try to encourage my wee one not to be rude to anyone, but I draw the line at homeopaths, she can abuse them as much as she likes.

SolidGoldVampireBat · 16/10/2011 22:39

Don't forget professional mediums: grave-robbing fuckwitted con-artists, the lot of them. They are fair game for abuse and mockery too.

CoteDAzur · 17/10/2011 07:22

Don't forget astrology. I have many fond memories from my childhood of conversations that followed some unsuspecting adult asking my star sign

LilRedWG · 17/10/2011 09:38

I didn't mean to start a mass debate here and don't want to get drawn into one.

Thank you all for your input and advice.

OP posts:

Rational · 17/10/2011 14:27

There isn't a mass debate going on. The religious and non religious have disagreed for millennia. The non religious think lying to kids is wrong, the religious think they're not lying.

No win situation really.

DutchOma · 17/10/2011 17:55

's Worse than that Rational:- we point our children in what we see as the ultimate Truth beyond which there is no Truth.
And rather than it being a no-win situation we believe in ultimate victory: over disaster, disease and ultimately, death.

Rational · 17/10/2011 18:33

Hmm, didn't god cause the disaster, disease and ultimate death in the first place? Can you elaborate a little on how you feel you can claim ultimate victory over these? (Serious question, I'm not being obtuse)

In fact science has made some rather large leaps in all of these areas.

DutchOma · 17/10/2011 19:28

If you really want to know I recommend the same book as I recommended to LilRedWG when the thread first started. It is called "It makes sense" and he explains it so much better than I could.

Rational · 17/10/2011 19:31

I'm sorry DutchOma, I really don't think I could digest a whole book on the subject. Thanks though for thr recommendation.

I'm just interested in you're perspective, not from a book. I like your gentle manner about the topic and I think we could have a discussion.

If you can't be arsed though that's ok.

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CoteDAzur · 17/10/2011 19:41

I'd be interested to hear about how Rational and other rational posters on this thread approach the subject with their DC.

Without thinking about it, my strategy for now with DD (6) and DS (2) is just not to talk about it. This is not hard, because there is nothing to talk about DS is too young to have an opinion on this subject, obviously, but even DD has only ever heard of the word God as part of the phrase "Oh my God", I think. She has no idea about what that word might mean.

I'm hoping to delay her exposure to the concept of God and religion to an age where she can reason and argue it rather than accept whatever she is told as fact.

Rational · 17/10/2011 19:54

I have a daughter, nearly 5, who started school this summer. She has been learning the odd kiddies hymn about god making birds and the planet and all things nice. I'm sure you know what I mean. She has also been around my step-son who visits every other weekend and goes with all this 'goddidit' thing. His father's not too pleased but he lives with his mum so we mostly leave him to it.

The most important thing I always do with my wee one is fire her questions right back at her. It's amazing watching her little mind work to try to resolve things herself. Based on the knowledge she already has she has come to the conclusion that god didn't make all these things like her brother and teacher tell her, and that in fact god probably doesn't exist. She's a very bright child, she has a pretty good grasp of the solar system and evolution. She can't fit god into it. She knows some people believe in a god, she knows mummy doesn't and she knows why I don't.

I'm bringing her up to question, and be sceptical, I think that's a wonderful gift to give her. I see you're doing that too.

CoteDAzur · 17/10/2011 20:38

My DD is also very much into the solar system, big bang, planets, etc. She knows about evolution, too .

I'm just wondering if I should introduce the concept of God and religion or wait for her to ask about it.

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