Ban smoking at London's bus stops - petition!

[SmokeFreeStops]

As someone with bad lungs, I find it really difficult to breathe when people are smoking at bus stops. I've tried asking people to stop smoking at bus stops - but often they say it's their legal right to smoke there. And you can't just move away from them because often it's raining or you might lose your place in the queue.

Some adults can drive and not use buses - but our kids are forced to stand there and inhale all this smoke if they need to use buses to get to school/friends. It's not good if they have asthma or cystic fibrosis.

So here's our petition calling for a ban in smoking at all London bus shelters - bit.ly/tflsmoke

Please sign if you find smoking at bus stops a problem or are worried about your kids breathing in second-hand smoke.

The English public smoking ban doesn't extend to bus shelters that aren't more than half enclosed i.e. most bus shelters in London. However, TfL can ban smoking and mandate 'No Smoking' signs in all London bus shelters. Many cities do this in their own areas.

This matters because 3 years after the public smoking ban, a study showed there were ~6,800 fewer hospital admissions for childhood asthma. The public smoking ban now has widespread support – a 2012 poll revealed 78% of adults were in favour. There has been a 2.4% national fall in hospital admissions for heart attacks as a result of the ban - equivalent to 1,200 fewer annual admissions.

Hopefully we can get smoking stopped at bus stops in London - making it better for children with lungs that don't respond well to passive smoking.

Thank you for reading this :). bit.ly/tflsmoke

(PS: I apologise if this is inappropriate here - I had a look at the forum rules and it just rules out commercial posts, rather than grassroots campaigns. Please delete if I've done something wrong!)

[whitesandstorm]

Is it not even more harmful breathing in the deadly bus fumes.

[BertieBotts]

Wouldn't the smokers then lose their place in the queue?

If it's not enclosed then I don't see the issue. Sorry.

[JanSales]

I really dont agree with it, sorry.

In an enclosed bus station, fine. But in an outdoors shelter, I cant see how it is enforceable? Who will police it? And how can anyone prove that a waft of cigarette smoke outdoors is worse for the lungs than the heavy car and bus fumes in most major citie?

[MedusaIsHavingaBadHairday]

Why not just shoot all smokers? (I am joking!)

Honestly.. London... the air quality is massively bad. Smoking is unpleasant to be near anywhere but unless you are going to wear a filter mask to stop the pollution too, there seems little point demonising one group of people on the grounds on lung health in London! (And no I don't smoke)

Personally if I had really bad lungs I'd move elsewhere. I always feel dirty after a day in London and am relieved to get back to my country bumpkin fresh air!

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Is it bus shelters or open air bus stops? If it is enclosed areas, it's banned already and there should be signs up saying so. If it's open areas, I think that would've unenforceable, how would itbe determined where the "perimeter" of the open air bus stop was?

[pinkfrocks]

I'd like them to enforce queueing too.
Most people- usually foreigners- have no idea about the British queueing system and hang around anywhere then push forward once the bus arrives.

I agree with you but it would be impossible to enforce unless you had on the spot fines. I think in most cases it is possible to move a few feet away or turn your back and get away from the smoke a little.

[CorporateRockWhore]

I think if they're not enclosed then you're on a bit of a sticky wicket. I'm not inclined to sign, sorry.

[Azquilith]

Uh, it's outdoors. Take an umbrella.

[SmokeFreeStops]

Thank you for the response. It's good to get a debate going.

1. We're calling for a smoking ban on covered shelters (not stops that are a 'pole in the ground' - sorry, was unclear earlier) which are not currently covered by the ban. These shelters have ROOFS so it's simply a case of are you under the roof, if so you risk a fine if you don't stop once asked. Other UK cities have this.
   

In Australia, in NSW it's even illegal to smoke even at uncovered bus stops or taxi ranks. I'm not going that far here.

I'm just calling for covered bus shelters (like most of the major bus shelters in London) while people are queuing close together to be covered by the ban, just like closed shelters already are.

2. I don't deny traffic pollution is a problem; however, there's nothing stopping us tackling bigger issues AND smaller issues like passive smoking at bus shelters, which can and does trigger asthma attacks in those vulnerable; for example, when someone stands near you smoking under the roof.

Children have tinier airways and smoke affects them more. An asthma attack caused in a child while they queue for public transport is not something to dismiss lightly.

I'm not against smokers. There's nothing stopping smokers smoking elsewhere and then coming to join the shared space of a bus queue under a roof.

Thanks again for the replies. :) if I've convinced a few more, please sign here: bit.ly/tflsmoke

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

I'm not against smokers.

Bum gravy! On your campaign page you have a picture of you (?) pointing at a smoker and doing a sadface, presumably taken without her permission. It's a horrible example of smoker shaming. You also invite supporters to send in their own pictures and videos.

1. We're calling for a smoking ban on covered shelters (not stops that are a 'pole in the ground' - sorry, was unclear earlier)

Then why is the woman in the image on your campaign page standing NOT under the covered part of the bus stop but next to the bus stop pole - i.e. on the open street? She's clearly not causing you a problem at all. I just hope she didn't feel too intimidated by a strange man coming up and pointing at her, at an otherwise empty bus stop, at night, while his friend took a picture.

BTW, TfL has no authority over non-enclosed bus stops as we learnt when they implemented a stealth ban on vaping late last year so you might want to tell your 25 supporters that you're sorry you wasted their time.

[pinkfrocks]

smoker shaming

Nothing wrong at all with 'smoker shaming' if we are having to inhale their smoke.

It's also totally missing the point to say the photo is not of a bus shelter- the OP might try harder to find the 'right' photo, but it doesn't change the overall aim of the petition.

I understand perfectly; it's the same as if you walk behind a smoker and get caught in the down-draught of smoke but at least then you can side step or walk on.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable request to have this banned.

[pinkfrocks]

Plenty- that photo is clearly posed by models!!! It's not a real smoker and I'm shocked you haven't tumbled to that.

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

Not clear at all, sorry. What about the invitation for supporters to send in their own pics and videos? It's incitement to harrass.

The problem with shaming smokers is it makes them feel just that little bit more shit each time and more likely to reach for the fags. If shaming worked we'd have no smokers left by now.

The overall aim of the petition is small-minded and not evidence based. Happy to explain why tomorrow when I have time but off to work now.

[sourdrawers]

Also people should be fined for throwing their dog-ends on the pavement. It's littering no?

[Mintyy]

I've reported your post as you need to get permission from Mumsnet to advertise your petition here (it would be non-stop petitions all day every day cluttering up the talk boards if not - think about it) and I believe there is a special section for them.

I disagree with your campaign too btw, but that is not why I have reported.

[expatinscotland]

Get a life.

[pinkfrocks]

Are the people here who don't agree with the petition either smokers themselves or the same people who didn't want smoking banned in shops, planes, all public transport, cafes, pubs etc etc?

Because I can't see much difference between inhaling smoke in a semi-covered bus stop ( which often has seats so if you are queueing you would lose your place if you moved) and inhaling smoke in a pub or a train ( where you could have argued that you could always move to another seat or table.)

It's a no brainer to me and and yes, throwing dog ends on the pavement is litter and should be fined along with gum and other rubbish people throw around.

[pinkfrocks]

Get a life

.
Oh the irony! yes- ideally one not shortened by fag smoke.

[expatinscotland]

I am not a smoker.

[PinkSquash]

Why just in London? Are there no bus shelters outside of the great capital?

[ghostspirit]

i hate smoking and agree. why should i or my kids have to breath in peoples smoke. i think its selfish. but hey ho nothing can be done about it. and i think its near impossible to stop people smoking at bus stops. unless there is going to be a policeman at every bus stop

[expatinscotland]

Or air pollution in one of the largest cities in Europe.

[MuddhaOfSuburbia]

go bollocks

your pic is daft

you're both outside the shelter on a main road and I would have thought what with the exhaust fumes belching out roadside that the woman having a quiet puff is the LEAST of your problems

if you're going to make the effort of petitioning Boris Johnson, why not look at air quality overall (which is SHIT) rather than pointing the finger (literally) at addicted individuals?

[caroldecker]

Throwing butts in the street is littering and people can and have been fined for it - it is enforced as much as other littering offences, which is why we have such clean streets.

[RiverTam]

hmm, well, I'm in London and I think it's pretty rare these days for anyone to be smoking at a bus stop. But I don't really get the point of this - at my local stop, which is covered, you can only fit about 4 people under the shelter, everyone else is out on the street (when I get the bus to work there's normally about 15-20 people waiting, and there's no queue to speak of, as the stop serves about 7 different routes, it's just a big surge when your bus rocks up). And given that you can have up to 4 double deckers stood at the stop, all belching out fumes, plus it's a busy A road, Christ knows what shit we're all breathing in anyway.