Do you have a small age gap between children?

[Benjy]

DD was conceived with fertility treatment and born in July 2008. I was told that I am unable to conceive naturally but did exactly that when DD was 4 months old. He is due in 4-5 weeks time.

DD turned 1 at the weekend. She is now in a routine of sorts. She has one daytime nap, although the timing of this varies: sometimes she sleeps in the morning; other times from 12.30ish - 2.30. She has a bedtime routine (bath, story, bottle and cuddle) and is in her cot for about 7.30-8. We have set meal times. Other than that each day is flexible.

Any advice would be appreciated, particularly around getting DC2 into a routine. I was entirely led by DD for a long time and didn't start a bedtime routine until around 7 months. She would fall asleep in the living room with us and then I would move her to her crib. I would like to get DC2 in his crib at a similiar time as DD goes to bed, even though he will obviously wake a few times for feeds. At what point is this realistic and how should I settle him?

Another issue is that DD is very clingy. She always has been. For the first 6 weeks I held her almost constantly because she would cry if I tried to put her down and would only stop if she was picked up again. She hated slings. Am very worried about how I'll cope with DD's clinginess if DC2 also turns out to be like this. Not only will she not let me out of her sight, she becomes very distressed if she can see me but there is what she considers to be too much physical distance between us, say if I'm at one end of the room and she's at the other! On some days it is so bad that if I'm out of touching distance, she starts to cry. I worry a lot about how I can meet the demands of another baby when she is like this.

Would also be good to hear how others coped in general with a small age gap especially in the early months. We have no close friends or family nearby so I have no help other than my DH, who works long hours.

[HecatesTwopenceworth]

I sincerely apologise for the number of smilies in that post. It looks awful!

[oneopinionatedmother]

i have 17 mths between mine -

agree that the little one will quickly fall into the flow (hopefully) on the days that lo was colicky, we..
1)let dd watch cbeebies!
2)put him in the other room to cry (after trying to feed etc) otherwise you just end up with 2 upset babies
3)put dd to bed early so i could deal with it.

it was really only the first 6 weeks that ewre tricky - he started staying awake a shorter and shorter time after her and now goes to bed at the same time (since 4mo).

in helping dd accept the newborn...involve her, get her to fetch things (mine will do heart-achingly cute things like drape a nappy over ds when i leave him on the changing mat) if the baby hurts her, tell her he's sorry.

boredom was a problem (as the sight of me breastfeeding lost its novelty for dd pretty fast), so going out for walks (both in double pushchair, or newborn in sling & single pushchair, or (crazily) toddler in backpack, baby in sling...) helps wear them both out.

as your baby likes to follow you - this is good! get her to follow you around as you do baby stuff (if her walking is ok). hopefully she'll find it interesting, and means you're keeping an eye on her.

don't assume your babies will be alike - my two are very different little characters in so many ways and started out very diferently.

oh and one piece of kit that was ever so useful - a soft-sided playpen. i used mine for dd (whilst feeding newborn) and then for newborn (whilst dd playing)- sounds like your daughter might not accept one, but your newborn might. mine spends many happy hours batting at his baby gym in his. makes answering phone/ feeding dd/ going to the loo/ life ever so much more possible.

[hazeyjane]

I have 14 months between my dd's, they are now 3.4 and 2.2. We also struggled to conceive, it took us 7 years to have dd1 and so we were amazed/terrified! when I found out i was pregnant with dd2.

Dd1 was/is similar to your dd, in that she is very clingy, hates being more than about a foot away from me and is very sensitive. I was so worried before I had dd2 as I felt as though I was almost betraying dd1 - that probably makes me sound a bit odd! All those fears flew out of the window when dd2 was born, for a start I realised just how much I could love them both, and also I could see just how much they could love each other. Watching the two of them build a relationship with each other is truly amazing. It is also lovely because dd2 is quite bold and bossy compared to dd1, and she marches her off somewhere away from me to 'be naughty', and they just giggle in a corner together. Obviously they fight like cat and dog too, but when they cuddle up next to each other or fall asleep holding hands on the sofa, I feel like my heart will break.

I found it really hard work in the last few weeks of pregnancy, and almost better once dd2 arrived. We moved house when dd2 was 6 weeks old and dh worked long hours and weekends, so there was a certain amount of letting everything slide and just accepting the chaos.

Dd2 slotted into dd1's routine, and we used to spend most of our days out and about, so dd2 slept in her pushchair for most naps. I would put dd2 to bed first so that dd1 got most of the attention at bedtime. I found that routines had to be pretty fluid, and the more relaxed I could be about that the better I felt. I had a Phil and Teds which was fantastic at getting them about and also handy for the carrybag bit that goes inside, which I would put on the table out of reach of dd1 .Otherwise a travel cot in the lounge might be an idea. We watched a fair bit of cbeebies, ate a lot of quick and easy meals (sandwiches, pasta and frozen sauce, pizza etc), but tried not to beat ourselves up about it.

I found life got a lot easier when dd2 could sit up and play with a few toys. I also found toddler groups a lifeline, because there were lots of other mums happy to cuddle dd2, toys to distract dd1 (usually clinging to my leg) and cheap biscuits and coffee to keep me going, plus mums to whinge to.

So stock up on rescue remedy, strong coffee and lots of chocolate - and welcome in the chaos!

[alana39]

My gap was a huge 18 months in comparison, but the older one was late to walk and still seemed quite a baby. 2 things really helped (and took a few weeks to juggle)

1. baby in sling when not asleep - there was a fair amount of spooning food into DS1 while breastfeeding DS2 but it was actually quite an efficient way to get them fed.
2. put the baby down for a sleep when the older one has a nap. It might take a while for them to settle, and like you my first was not good with sleep routine, but the second one has no choice (not bad parenting, just less precious parenting I think which is probably a good thing). DS1 never fell asleep without one of us sitting on bed until 3 1/2 years - DS2 took about 3 1/2 weeks.#

You'll be fine, and as others have said there is no perfect gap, but once you're over the worst in the sense of the physical care, they'll play together etc and that makes it easier for you then.

[TamTam29]

I forgot- if you give your local adult education colleage a ring they may be able to place a childcare student with you as they have to do a variety of placements, not just schools & nurseries.

A lady at my work had triplets (naturally concieved!!!) and had 2 students that helped her, a young school leaver and a mature student whose 2 children were in their late teens. She always says how great they were and still keeps in contact with them now the triplets are at secondary school. A multiple birth group helped organise the placemnts for her but you may be able to organise something with them, iknow that they like to place students in homes with more than one child of pre-school age.

an alternative to the Phil & Teds is this.

Baby Jogger City Mini

Mine arrived today from Kidicare and so far it is fantastic! Took DS2 out for a walk in it this afternoon. Both sides lay flat, seats are roomy (many double buggies seem to have small seats) and it is a dream to push (although I didnt have DS2 hefty weight in it) folds down in one move and fits into my ford feista boot easily!

[toddlerama]

My girls are 15 months apart and DD2 is now almost 9 months. It's all gone in a blur and is soooo much easier already than at first. I had a C-Section so had to accept lots of help, but I wanted to be left alone with them as soon as poss to see how I coped, and it was fine. When DD1 makes DD2 laugh, I feel like I will never be happier.

Top tips include:
If you're bathing them together in the evening, get all of DD2's pjs / cream / nappies etc ready before they get in - you can dry and dress her whilst the older one has a more boisterous splash.

If you're changing one, change the other at the same time- otherwise you seem to be doing a nappy every 30 mins!

Set older one up in highchair with some food before you feed the younger one. Put CBeebies on for them.

If you also have a dog (why?why?why is it still alive!!!??), study the riddle about the fox, the chicken and the bag of corn that need to cross the river.

You will love it. The first weeks are a shock, but it gets easier all the time.

[girlsyearapart]

Oh yes yes to the Cbeebies thing! love it dd1 shamefully knows names of all presenters and what order bedtime programmes are on in..

Yes to toddlerama about the bath- we also have a mat from Mothercare with a seat built in (aqua pod?) which is useful from 6 ish months so you can wash the eldest whilst youngest ledans against it.

God only knows how the dog is still alive!!

[neuroticlady]

I am so glad I found this thread! I have a 17 month old and a four week old baby and I am finding the lack of being able to split myself in two to deal with them both really hard. DS1 has just started to have tantrums when I pick the baby up and he woke loads last night, which is really hard when you're not getting much sleep with a newborn anyway. I am trying to tell myself this is as hard as it will get and it will get easier. I can't wait to get the baby into a routine (DS1 is in bed by 7pm and my priority is to keep him in his routine) but at the moment the baby is waking up in the evenings argh. It's hard and tiring and I feel like a deer in headlights most of the time but I keep imagining them both when they are a bit older and playing together and I hold on to that image while I'm in the eye of the storm!

Here's a question: for those of you who have done it, did you find that if you just stuck the baby in the cot at sleep time out of necessity (no time to settle, shush, pat etc because you have the older one to deal with) and left them to it they would eventually just go to sleep? I have been avoiding the cot and keeping the baby in the sling with me as I can't bear the idea of hearing her scream while I deal with DS1. Perhaps I am worrying unnecessarily...?

Oh good luck to everyone else out there in the same boat! This thread has cheered me up

[cheapskatemum]

I had 2 under 2, then I had 3 under 3. Then I saw sense & had 4 under 6! Reading this thread reminds me of those early motherhood days. Toddler groups were a godsend. DS1 got really good at those wooden jigsaw puzzles where you place the shape in the right space for it as he used to do them on my lap while DS2 fed (& fed, & fed & fed - later found out he has ASD & LD). Found that DS1 walking whilst holding the buggy & with wrist strap on, DS2 in a single buggy and DS3 in a sling, later back pack, worked better for me than double buggy.

Regarding routine - they were all so completely different - for example, DS1 had to be cuddled to sleep, whereas DS2 wouldn't sleep unless laid down, I just felt I had to do as a previous poster said & go with the flow. By the way, no family nearby, DH working long stretches abroad! Life's a breeze in comparison now! Good luck with it and remember - it will pass!

[Icantbelieveit]

Well I can beat all of you, I have a 10 and a half month gap between my girls!!
I fell pregnant when dd1 was 3 months and dd2 arrived a few weeks early.

Tbh in some ways it was probably easier than having a newborn and 2 yr old (though I don't know any different).

Before dd2 was born we got dd1 into a routine and she was sleep at 7pm and had a good nap in teh day. But it's very difficult to get a newborn into any kind of routine for quite a while and I was just led by what she needed at the time.

I do remember dd2 being very good and sleeping alot during the day which was great as I could get on with dd1, but then she was up in the night every hour wanting to be fed - but I got through it.
I didn't have family help and my dp left the house before 7 and got home after 7 in the evening so I was on my own.

the 2nd children quickly get used to whatever is happening but get a sling if he needs to be held a lot leaving you to see to your dd.

You cope because you have to, Ilook back and think how on earth did I do that but it's just what you do.
Forget about the hgousework just do what is priority.

You will fall into a routine very quickly quite naturally. My dd's had a 2 hr nap together during the day which was brilliant.

Even with a newborn you should still be able to have a lot of time for your dd, you can sit on the sofa together whille you hold baby and read books or watch tv (am I supposed to say that!), and she will get used to it so don't worry too much.

I got through it and they are now 9 and 8 and have 2 yr old ds and that's way more difficult!!

[Benjy]

I'm overwhelmed at the response. Thank you all for taking the time to post. There's some really good ideas and I'm feeling a lot more positive now.

I really relate to those posters who said they felt as if they were betraying DC1, which is exactly how I've been feeling and while I know that after a couple of months, DD will not remember being the only child, that makes me feel very sad (probably pregnancy hormones: it's not like she was going to remember the first year of her life anyway!).

I am looking forward to those times when I find the two of them cuddled up together or plotting some mischief. And I know that in a year or two I'll be glad of the close age gap.

[rainbowdays]

I have 15 month gap between first two and then a 3 year gap to third child. 15month gap was wonderful. We are currently trying to concieve a forth child and I was desperately disappointed to not have a small gap between 3 and 4 like the first two. It really is great later on to have two close together. I now have DS1 6, DD 4.5 and DS2 15 months old.

I can agree with several things already mentioned.

• Try to get both children to nap at same time during the day so that you can get a nap too at the same time (don't go doing housework while they both sleep!).
• Sleep whenever you get a chance! Those first weeks of a newborn baby are exhausting
• Changing nappies at the same time and have all nappy stuff in one location.
• If second child will allow it, put them down to sleep in early days without cuddling to sleep, helps with extra time for older child and gets them used to routine of self-settling early on. Obviously not all babies/children will let this happen, and most go through a clingy phase at some point anyway. But it is a life-saver if you can introduce it early on.
• I was lucky enough to have a neighbour who would take my older child for a walk for an hour once or twice a week, it was a luxury, but any help offered - take it!!!

I managed with a single buggy and buggy board. With sling while baby was small to start with.

Neuroticlady - you asked about getting the baby to settle themselves in the cot. I started very early on making sure I put the baby down when they were starting to get dozey but before they were fully asleep, that way they were more likely to just go straight to sleep, then gradually they were able to be put down less dozey and still able to self-settle. A midwife also suggested I put them down with a tee-shirt or something else that had been in contact with me for a short time, so it held my smell, rather than fresh washing powder smell, it was to make them think that you were still nearby. I found that using a muslin cloth that next to my skin while feeding them meant I was able to put it under their head and it was still warm from me and familiar smell at the same time worked well, and was easy to do.

The first weeks with a baby are unbelievably hard, but it does get better. I worried all through the second pregnancy about having two close together, but it has just got better and better.

[mum2twinboys]

oh I sympathise with you OP! I had my twin boys through IVF, and was told the same, would never get pregnant naturally, and 3 months later I did just that! My DS was then born 8 months later, so I had three under one when DS arrived!
The first 2 months especially were a complete blur, but we did manage. Do you have an social supports, I know you said you do not have family close by, but friends, local reliable teenagers that could be a mothers helper (this is what I had, she was 17, and was fantastic, as she was an extra pair of hands!) Otherwise, a church community if you are a member? Or surestart? There are lots of different organisations out there that will be able to give you a helping hand.
Lots of people have posted about routine asap, I think this is so so important, as it gives them, and you, the opportunity to be in a predictable way.
As much as possible, take advantage to spend time with your DD when baby is sleeping, as it will remind them that they have not been left out because there is a new family member.
HTH!

[MilaMae]

My twins were 15 months when I had dd and I'd be lying if I didn't say it was tough,it was but there are benefits and you can make it easier.

My twins were ivf and dd was the natural miracle we were told could never happen

Firstly I would accept it's hard and not ideal then the guilt won't take over. You'll go mad and drag yourself down if you're not careful. I wanted to be supermum as it had taken me so long to get them . I had to accept everything I'd planned just wasn't going to happen in the way I wanted to. It wasn't the way I'd planned to have a family but I always knew I was very lucky-this helps a great deal. However rough my day was I always thought of those still on the IVF rollercoaster it really helped.

Once you accept you haven't got the ideal 3/4 year age gap you also accept that you're just trying to do your best when you can't meet all their needs straight away. MY lot have never had 1 to 1 I don't think it's affected them in a bad way,to be honest I think they've benefited as your dd will.

I had a nipper double,then single and a kiddy board-worth every penny. I used a sling as long as poss and insisted on naps at the same time so I had a break at lunch time not to everybody's taste but crucial for me. I also got out every single day and found friends with similar families to my own.

My lot are 5,5 and 4 now and it's soooo much easier, I'm also sooooo glad of the small gap now. They are very close and we are as a family-they also have lots of fun together

[MilaMae]

Mum2 how old are your boys now? My twins were boys too.

Do you feel outnumbered at times? Dp and I find being the only 2 not into poo jokes gets a bit waring at times

Sorry to highjack.

[wolfear]

What a great thread.I have a 23 month gap btn DS1 and DS2 (4 wks old) and could have done with reading this a couple of weeks ago. It has been a fairly difficult time but so much of that is because you're so tired from broken sleep.

I've always had a strict routine for DS1 and wanted the same for DS2 but have found I've had to become a bit more easy-going in that respect and allow DS2 to slot in. The last few nights he's ended up sleeping with me for half the night as I'm so tired when BFing that I've ended up laying on my side and letting him feed and fall asleep. At least that way I've managed more than a few hours a night.

The best advice I can give you is sleep when you can. I felt like a walking zombie after about two weeks. DH and I ended up rowing non-stop a we were both so tired. I don't have much help as I'm from Australia and my mum and family are back there, althoug mum arrive on Saturday for three weeks, hurray. I've been saving up the ironing.

I've returned to my toddler groups and try and get out at least once a day, even if it's for a walk down the shops to get some milk.

I make a real fuss over DS1 too and always put his needs first if DS2 is crying. I've also found the dummy to be a life saver. DS1 has been a little jealous but has in no way been agressive towards DS2, he exhibits it more by pretending to cry if DS1 cries or says he needs me when I go to DS1. Everyone keeps telling me to think about a couple of years into the future when they're playing together and are best buddies (!).

It has been harf, but is getting better now that things have settled down a bit. Best of luck.

[midnightexpress]

Benjy, I think one way to look at the 'betrayal' of dc1 thing is to think of it from the perspective of DC2, who never gets that time as the only sibling. That helped me to feel better about it all anyway. As you say, your DD will very soon not be able to remember life before your DS. And in the long run, I personally think that the benefits and joys of having a sibling far outweigh however long or short a time dc1 has as an only child.

[neuroticlady]

Benjy, forgot to say our DS1 took about 8 years to come along so we thought a second would never happen, and I LAUGHED at my six week antenatal check when the ob asked me about contraception. Wasn't laughing when I found out I was pregnant with DD when DS1 was seven months old! But MilaMae that's a great way to think about it - remember those still on the horrid IVF treadmill (after all, sounds like plenty of us here have been there and know what it's like) in the fog of these early days.

Agree that toddler groups are a lifeline. Why do they have to stop for summer?!

Let's keep saying it: it'll be worth it, this bit will pass!

[midnightexpress]

It's funny how that happens neuroticlady, isn't it (I say 'funny'...)? We too had some problems conceiving ds1 - Clomid, but not IVF, but I know several people who have had IVF for the first and then gone on to conceive again naturally and often quite quickly. I don't know anything about the ins and outs and stats, but it seems from this thread that it is quite common.

[Momino]

Hi. congrats! it's so good you're thinking of this now and plenty of good advice.

i have 20 month gap with my 3 DCs - dd1 3.5, dd2 1.9, dd3 10 wks. dd1 was also very clingy, shy & sensitive. it was really tough when dd2 arrived. she sobbed when she saw me hold dd2 and same when she saw me BF - it broke my heart so i did my best to make her feel as special as before dd2. do put time aside solely for your dd1 (books, cuddles, outing). also include her on 'helping' with bathing/changing baby. maybe get her a dolly she could take care of just like you'll be taking care of dc2.

now, DDs1&2 play together so nicely and dd1 has really developed her 'big sisterly' role. i'm sure she's forgotten what it's like to have been the only one. I also know that when dd2 is napping or they're separated for some reason, dd1 really misses her sister. they've become very good little friends.

best wishes with your new arrival. everything will be fine.

[Hangingbellyofbabylon]

I had 18 months between my two - now nearly 5 and 3.5. Everyone said the first year would be hell but things get better when the younger starts walking. Well, the irony is that dd2 turned out to have cerebral palsy and at 3.5 has just started walking a few steps but still needs carrying loads! Things have been very very hard, but my two girls are so close. It's almost like twins and I can't imagine them any other way. I'm pregnant with dd3 due in September and in many ways feel much more nervous about it all, at least the first time round I didn't have to handle the school run whilst trying to look after a newborn!

Good luck, it will pass and you will all do it. You may also find that your eldest grows up a bit quick, I sometimes expect dd1 to be older than she is and have to remind myself that she's ever so little and still needs as much love and cuddles as her younger sis.

[laurasmiles]

HI there - I just wanted to agree with oher posters and let the list of posts grow linger is reassuring you that everything will be okay. I was very wrapped up in my first born and anxious that his needs would be overlooked with the 2nd arrival - but that wasn't really the case.
Once you have two I think you relax on a certain level after the initial rush of adrenaline. My second one spent her life in the 'hug-a-bub' sling which was a godsend. I visited lots of toddler groups where older one could run around. Or out for buggy rides. I bought a huge double buggy but I rarely used it - in favour of a single and a sling.

Can't help you with the bedtime routine, as went completely the other way and b/f on demand throughout the night and had her in a co-sleeping cot so i didn't have to get up! It was also a nice snuggle time with second baby who tened to have to fit around the rest of us during the day. So I got lots of lovely bonding time - although she was a dreadful sleeper and I was shattered!!

Definitely would recommend baby-led weaning. It's a doddle after all the pureeing cooking and throwing in the bin milarkie with the first one!

The age gap berween mine was 19months. I'm so pleased and I wouldn't have had it any other way - even though it wasn't exactly planned! They are great buddies for eachother and everything we do as a family, is geared around their needs and appropriate for both. They are now 4 and 2 and oldest starts school in September - just wondering how the youngest will cope as I think she'll be a bit berreft, so we shall have to fill our days.

Don't worry yourself too much. There's no predicting what the easy or difficult parts will be as they are all so different - but just enjoy them and let the housewrok drop off the agenda as much as dignity will allow - in my case, we lived in a pit but then agin it's never been my favourite activity. Good luck!

[FanjolinaJolie]

If you are wanting a good routine that both of the children will 'fit into' easily then I can really recommend Gina Ford Contented Little Baby Book. You will be able to use the routine for both and (ideally!) have them both asleep at the same time for the main/after lunch sleep when you could also get your head down too. I too had no family nearby (all in NZ) and found this routine kept me sane and rested, too, when I had two.

Gina's routine supports breastfeeding, too.

[hazeyjane]

BTW I have always envied people who managed to get their dd's to nap at the same time during the day, the only times I managed that with mine was if they fell asleep in the pushchair.

Everyone told me that I would be a lot more relaxed about letting dd2 cry, and putting her to bed without lots of cuddles etc, but I found I was the complete opposite. Dd1 hated co-sleeping and slings and was colicky and difficult to cuddle, so with dd2 she got cuddled to sleep and slept in our bed and carried a lot. And TBH I loved every second of it, it feels so much more precious when you have seen how quickly time passes with the first, I didn't seem to worry about the whole 'making a rod for your own back' thing, because I am really aware that they grow and move onto another phase so quickly. Of course I am hugely sleep deprived and sometimes feel like I am 400 rather than 40, but this too will pass!

Oh another thing, I used to take dd1 for a cup of tea and cake whilst dd2 napped during the day, and it was lovely and made her feel special, and of course involved coffee and cake the 2 most important foodgroups!

[beepbeep]

I had 17 m between my two and felt exactly the same whilst pregnant as you do, but in reality found it much easier than I thought. I also slinged DS whilst keeping DD in stroller as long as possible and tried when possible to keep them to napping at same time. I did same as another poster has suggested and when DS was asleep in buggy DD and would have juice and cake or do something special. We bought her a doll (present from her new brother) with nappies etc so she could look after her 'baby' as well. We had about 2 weeks of jealousy after initial couple of weeks of excitement but they soon just got used to each other, the are now 1 and 2.5 and seeing them together I think they gain so much from having each other that I sometimes wonder why I worried.

One thing that's always been important to us is evenings so as soon as possible we srted bedtime to be similar for both. To stat with putting baby down after toddler so crying and settling didn't wake her, but after a while brought his bedtime forward so now half hour before DC1 which means we get some quality time for cuddle and story when he's in bed.

Now 21wks pregnant with #3 so trying prepare myself for 3 under 3 - having exactly same feelings and anxieties about DC2 coping this time as I had with DC1 first time!!