Negative Reactions to Punishment

[SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs]

So homeschooling is bringing a new parenting challenge in our house. Year 6 DS is supposed to be on zoom for 5 one hour lessons per day. This is boring and he has been opening another window to play/watch online games. This is complicated by the fact he plays online with friends who are being allowed to play all day despite the school lessons.
I have been reacting to finding him by banning him from gaming for that day, but mostly not following through completely so just limiting his gaming to one hour.
It all came to a head yesterday and I followed through and actually switched the pc off after his last lesson. Trouble is it was such a shock to his system he has been reacting with some very negative behaviour. Starting by being mean to his younger sister. I punished this with another days computer ban so he followed up by peeing all over the bathroom floor. I think he expected me to let him on the computer today despite the ban so when I didn’t he went to the toilet, pushed the toilet brush into his poo and put it back in the holder covered in shit.
I’ve just found this and given him another days ban but now I’m wondering what he will do in response.
The computer ban clearly isn’t resulting in better behaviour but what the heck am I supposed to do, I can’t just let him watch YouTube all day when he is supposed to be on zoom lessons?

[00100001]

Sorry!

[SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs]

@00100001 I said I liked the idea and he has done that.

@johnd2 yes, I agree with everything you said he needs the skills to manage this as whilst not normal schooling if he does office work he will need to concentrate and avoid similar temptations.

In answer to the questions about school work, he completes it all no bother, he is bright and normally studious. They keep them on zoom whilst they complete short pieces of work. I think the bit he struggles with are the teaching parts where they explain everything in minute detail.
He also struggles with the fact he has friends who are gaming together online with the live lessons open. He accepts that we value education but I think it’s all just got a bit much for him today.

[RandomMess]

My DDs are older and the live lessons are 30-50 minutes.

I have done remote training and after 30 minutes am really struggling to concentrate. The same with meetings were it's just being talked at on one subject. We just aren't designed that way!

[museumum]

I've had a few days with 5 hours on zoom and it's absolutely hellish! I'm not surprised he's struggling to concentrate that long.
Is there time in those hours for doing work? Or is it all just listening/watching? if it is doing work then is he managing the work and finishing early? if he is then I wouldn't be too worried but if he's not then he needs to buck up. Ideally you need to get into a situation where you are not the prison warder dishing out ever increasing punishments in order to enforce appropriate "classroom" behaviour.

[Lougle]

@RedskyBynight

I would feed back to the school that the lessons need to be 45-50 minutes as they are in real life to reflect packing bags and moving classrooms!

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but are hour long live lessons the norm in other people's schools? At my DC's school the "live" bit is normally just the first half the lesson, and then the DC are set a task to do, and can ask questions if they want or just get on with it if they don't. I don't see that a model that requires 5 hours' worth of concentration on online teaching every day is beneficial, and if this is required, I would definitely be feeding it back to the school.

Our secondary was doing tutor (30 minutes) then 5 live lessons of 1 hour each. After the first week they wrote to us and said that they were reducing them by 10 minutes (pro-rata), so 25 minutes tutor, and 50 minute lessons. It has made a huge difference to my girls, because they have 10 minutes to stretch/use the loo/go and see the rabbits, etc.

Having said that, I would be furious if they did anything the op has mentioned.

[00100001]

Why aren't you responding to the suggestions of having him clean the bathroom as the direct consequence of what he did?

[johnd2]

Gosh some interesting approaches on here, but i feel like turning it into a war and asserting yourself to win is never going to end in happiness.
I second the idea of discussing with him and doing a lot of listening and coaching/helping him to come to solutions.
A bit of empathy with him might lubricate the process, i mean I'm working at home and I'm 3 times his age and if i had 5 hours of meetings I'd be on YouTube too.
Giving him the skills to manage his impulses himself is a lot better than him relying on you, because one day he will be like me working at home without you to control him.
Something like "i know it's tough being on a meeting for 5 hours a day, id struggle too, can you think of any solution to get the work done and keep in touch with your friends without struggling to do what you know is the right thing. There are 14 hours in the day so if you're spending 5 on school work how can you use the rest of the time to do what you need to and what you want to and feel happy with that?" And then do a lot of listening and take it from there. He may suggest getting an app to block YouTube or drawing a star on a sheet of paper every time he feels like opening YouTube or whatever, it doesn't matter as long as it's his idea and he wants to succeed.
Good luck, i know on that note that it's tough for you having to deal with this.

[RedskyBynight]

I would feed back to the school that the lessons need to be 45-50 minutes as they are in real life to reflect packing bags and moving classrooms!

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but are hour long live lessons the norm in other people's schools? At my DC's school the "live" bit is normally just the first half the lesson, and then the DC are set a task to do, and can ask questions if they want or just get on with it if they don't. I don't see that a model that requires 5 hours' worth of concentration on online teaching every day is beneficial, and if this is required, I would definitely be feeding it back to the school.

[RandomMess]

I would feed back to the school that the lessons need to be 45-50 minutes as they are in real life to reflect packing bags and moving classrooms!

Consequences reflect the misdemeanour as covered by previous posters.

[SnuggyBuggy]

I'd think he needs some mental health help. The shit smearing is really disturbing behaviour.

[LemonBreeland]

You need to continue following through with the punishments, and absolutely make him clean his mess. You made a huge error by not following through with your original punishments, so now is the time to show him you will follow though. I get that zoom lessons might be boring, but he is expected to do them.

If you can find out how to block YouTube that would help.

[justilou1]

Lockdown has affected EVERYONE’S bloody mood. How would he feel if you shared photos of what he did to the bathroom with his class? Is he two??? I would hold that threat over his head, the filthy grot! He needs to realize that he is not the only one the world experiencing FEELINGS. I am sure you will hear all bout his precious FEELINGS when he is gagging and puking and uttering about how it’s “NOT FAIR!” When he’s cleaning up the bathroom.

[SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs]

@RedskyBynight I agree that being on zoom for 5 hours a day is a bit much and I can see why he is getting bored, but this what the school have decided to do so if he isn’t logged on he would be classed as absent. I think this is a big part of the problem but not something I have any control over.

[biscuit13]

@SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs I think the way you handled it is quite good, he is doing these things because you are following through, he will soon learn that if he carries on he'll never get to play games.
I agree that talking to him in a grown up way to explain that will help. Like say "every time you display behaviour that is not acceptable i will take away another day of online games" and then say "you will also be clearing up any mess that you make". He is old enough to understand and talk to in a grown up way. So he should get the idea pretty quick. I would literally tell him really simply that if he gets on with his lessons he'll have his game time.
As for when he is logged onto his lessons there must be a way of blocking websites or putting a child lock on websites so he cant access it, and then when you allow him to you can unlock it for his game time.

[RedskyBynight]

I think I would be pragmatic.

He needs to do his school work. Does he "need" to be on zoom for 5 hours a day (that sounds like a lot!)? At secondary school age, I think some autonomy over how they manage their day is ok. The agreement I have with my DC is that they attend any Live lessons (which are never for a whole hour - I think that's a lot!) and they aim to get most work done by the end of the day that it's set, and all work complete by the end of the week. If they do that, I won't fuss over the amount of time they are spending gaming/on their phones (on the basis there is little else to do, and a lot of this is for socialising). The flipside is, that if they do stop doing this, then I will get strict and start monitoring what they are doing/enforcing limits. So I'm giving control back to them to manage their time sensibly - which I think is what you want to achieve?

[FelicityPike]

WTAF?!
Block YouTube, give him the cleaning materials for the bathroom, remove his computer privileges for a week!
That’s revolting! 12?! Jesus.

[Lougle]

I have 3 girls aged 15, 13 and 11 (year 7). I would be absolutely livid if they did anything... Well I can't quite believe that I'm reading that he peed on the floor and shoved a loo brush in poo.

Ban his YouTube in the day. You can do that.

[SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs]

@gamerchick

You can block YouTube.

A dirty protest would send me apocalyptic. There would be no internet for a very long time.

Trouble is this lockdown has really affected his mood, not seeing his friends and the only thing he has left is playing with them online. I don’t think just stopping this for any more than a day or two is reasonable.
I suppose I could just stop his access to YouTube but I want him to learn self control and have explained that if I as an employee just mucked about on YouTube all day I wouldn’t stay employed for long. I see being tempted by the internet as a problem he needs to learn to deal with as otherwise his life will be pretty shit.

[nimbuscloud]

What did he say about what he did in the bathroom?

[gamerchick]

You can block YouTube.

A dirty protest would send me apocalyptic. There would be no internet for a very long time.

[SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs]

Sorry got his year wrong, he is now year 7 and just turned 12, so first year at high school.
I don’t know if I can switch YouTube access off but will look into it.
Just to clarify he is logged into his lessons but is opening another window to watch YouTube.

[B1rthis]

He's twelve years old?
He's urinating on the floor and removing his faeces from the toilet?

Has he been diagnosed with any learning conditions?
Has he been sexually assaulted?

This is NOT common ways to over react to a situation given his age.

Get to the bottom of his problem (not computer.) Before it becomes too serious to deal with.

[Runmybathforme]

The dirty protest would really worry me, that’s disgusting.

[AuntyJack]

@Prufrocks OP might not be in the UK. In most of the rest of the world schooling starts at 5 not 4 so year 6 is age 11-12

[EatsFartsAndLeaves]

I'd start with being more consistent, honestly. It's not surprising he reacts badly when punishment is effectively arbitrary.