Why are people so arsey about vegetarian kids?

[bohemianbint]

DS is 14 months and vegetarian, because I am - we don't have meat in the house and I don't touch it so there's no way I'd be feeding him meat even if I wanted to. (Which I don't.) The way I see it, it's not a problem, I know about what foods to give him to make sure he's not missing out and he's a very healthy lad who will eat anything.

So yesterday, my brother said me "forcing" vegetarianism on him is the same as me "forcing" religion on him and compared it to christening a child and making a fundamental decision for him.

The way I see it is he can do whatever when he's older (but I'll never be cooking it for him!) but if he chooses to be a vegetarian he can't "un-eat" the meat. If he wants to eat meat, then fine. Why should I "force" meat eating on him? I had it forced on me and it really screwed me up.

Anyone else had to deal with this sort of attitude and how do you deal with it? I found "shut up" worked reasonably well yesterday (I get so tired of justifying myself!) but not really that eloquent, is it...

[ivykaty44]

So yesterday, my brother said me "forcing" vegetarianism on him is the same as me "forcing" religion on him and compared it to christening a child and making a fundamental decision for him.

So best not to force any religion on him or any food........ It would be exactly the same if you "forced" meat on him - you are making the decision for him.

Thats what we do as parents, we hope that the children can then grow up and make their own choices, but when they are small we do that for them.

Unlike your brother who wants to force his opinion on you, regardless of the fact your an adult

[Ponka]

Weird. I was just discussing this with my friend, who is bringing her children up vegetarian because she is herself. Her DH is not. She explained it more or less as you have. It is just another of many life choices that she has made for her children because they are not old enough to make them for themselves. It makes complete sense to me. Some of her family have a minor problem with it, I think.

I wonder if the reason people have a problem with it is a combination of the following:

1. It is denying something that is perceived by the majority of people as a beneficial thing. O.K. so a Gregg?s sausage roll is perhaps not "a beneficial thing" but good quality meat is nutritious
   
   
2. The reason for denying it does not appear to be for the good of the child but more to do with their parent?s ethics.
   
   I think this is a very interesting subject. So, at what age do you think a child can be responsible for deciding to eat meat or in the reverse case, turn vegetarian? My two are very little so I don't have a clue.

[justadad]

If you belive in/accept the theory of evolution then life is essentially the acquisition of resources in order to enable the production of the next generation, and that applies to virus/bacteria/fungi/plants and animals. Plants evolved to use just minerals and sunlight as their resources (carniverous plants excepted), animals evolved to use plants and other animals as their resources. As animals we therefore use (or "kill" if we want to be emotive) other living organisms.

A vegan who only ate true fruits (a biological definition) would therefore involve the least "killing" as long as they allowed the seeds which passed through their digestive tract the opportunity to germinate.... not too many of those around I guess.

With this in mind there's no reason why anyone should feel smug about their dietary choice.

As many have already said, we all load our own personal ethics on our kids be it diet, religion, clothing, holidays etc etc. Bringing them up to be themselves and encouraging them to make their own, rational and independent decisions is, in my opinion, the most important bit. Neither DW or I can stand mushrooms (food of Beelzebub if you ask me) but I won't disown the kids if in future they decide to eat them!

[Beachcomber]

Point taken ninedragons.

I just find myself getting arsey when sometimes the tone of conversations about vegetarianism gets a bit judgemental towards all meat eaters in general.

Also I think people thrive on different diets and as a parent we shouldn't interfere too much with this natural process. I have two children. My eldest (4 years old) eats quite a lot of meat and seems to feel hungry if she doesn't eat it(I do feed plenty of non animal protein so it's not a protein issue). The youngest (2 years old)eats tiny amounts of meat, not very often. She does eat eggs quite a lot though. They both seem to have very different dietary requirements and I think that should be respected.

[ninedragons]

Beachcomber, you are perfectly correct in that it's possible to eat a balanced, healthy diet containing meat. My point is that, in my experience, it tends not to be the people like that who get arsey about vegetarian children.

It's the turkey twizzler parents who sometimes have a problem with any children fed thoughtfully, whether junk-food-free, sugar-free, organic or vegetarian. The parents passing junk food through the fence to the children in the Jamie Oliver schools spring to mind...

[madamez]

Walnut: have you never met anyone who puts unreasonable restrictions on their DC's diet (whether it's vegetarianism or following the latest crank diets without taking any kind of professional advice about it). I am not accusing any of the posters on this thread of mistreating or malnourishing their children, simply pointing out that a reason some people may get arsey with the concept of vegetarian children is that they have encountered stupid parents not feeding their children properly and claiming it's a vegan/vegetarian thing. (Or, perhaps more likely, they have encountered people who are tiresomely self-righteous about their restricted (but unhealthy) diets and claim they would feed any kids they had in the same inadequate way.)

[EBAB]

Am with you, bohemianbint. But unlike your brother, I feel that opting for raising your child veggie is the precise opposite of forcing religion on him. I take the same view with meat as I do with religion: start with a blank slate of nothing contentious - no God or meat - and older ds can add the god/meat dimensions into his life if/when he sees fit. Because meat is non-essential to good (human) health (although apparently it's well-suited to blood type 'O' people), and can be damaging to health, I don't see any reason to introduce it to a child until/unless they choose, when old enough to make an informed decision about it. Ditto religion.

Ds (3) and I were vegetarian until we started eating oily fish 18 months ago (I don't seem to make DHA from veggie omega 3's). When I was expecting ds, I was told by someone that I couldn't grow a baby on carrots .

As it turns out, ds is BIG and STRONG and healthy. He is the tallest three-year-old we know (98th centile), slim (91st centile), and eats almost anything. I love cooking and am into nutrition, so he eats a lot of healthy stuff.

Ds is interested in meat and its origins, and why his grandparents all eat it and we don't. But he has expressed no desire to eat it, and happily scoffs his veggie sausages at my mum's roasts .

I honestly can't see what the problem is, and feel vindicated by ds turning out so flipping enormous, and enjoying and currently preferring his veg-based diet. He's quite a good advert for it .

I am pleased to say that since the 'carrot' remark, we haven't met with much protest. However, the best retort I know of is, "Well, elephants are vegetarian y'know ..."

[Beachcomber]

Walnutshell said;

"Beachcomber - the 'guilt' aspect was not raised by anyone arguing about vegetarianism, it was a misinterpretation which has been addressed and which hasn't formed the main thrust of this thread.

Not all vegetarians argue the ethics of their diet as the primary reason for not eating meat. However, I find it sad that you find "the ethical argument... highly tedious" because with that logic in mind, few ethical decisions can lived out. So, yes, you are being arsey."

Sorry but numerous posters have suggested that omnivores have a problem with vegetarianism in children due to their own guilt about eating 'turkey twizzlers'. It is possible to eat nutritious respectfully reared meat and feel no guilt about it whatsoever (why should we as natural omnivores?).

When I say I find the ethical argument tedious I mean I find the whole business of getting emotional (particularly when it is on behalf of someone else) about 'dead flesh' and 'dead animals' questionable in people who don't seem informed about the wider human rights and ethical issues that are part and parcel of most westerners' diets. I

I used to work as a cook in a vegan restaurant and I knew a lot of people who were concerned about all manner of ethical issues but just as many who were simply not informed or didn't really care.

I agree with you that I am thoroughly arsey about this issue

[mumofhelen]

I'm not a vegetarian. However, an aquaintance of mine is, and so is her 7 months old baby - from birth. The insults she has had to endure from all-sorts is out-of-order. If a mother wants her child to follow a vegetarian diet, than so be it. As for dealing with it, "shut up" is probably the best response. Ignore these people too, they really aren't worth the trouble.

[bohemianbint]

Think you're right Cocobear. Shut up it will be henceforth.

[Walnutshell]

madamez: "be it due to highmindedness or stupid trend-following"

Oh, dear, now you are just being plain silly and rude as well as patronising and ignorant.

[Bessie123]

It is far more abusive and damaging for a child to feed them mcdonalds, kfc and turkey twizzlers than veggie food. Keep telling your brother to shut up, Bohemianbint.

[MadamePlatypus]

As far as I am aware (and I am willing to be corrected), protein is a food group of which meat is a part. This is what DS learnt at nursery anyway.

[Cocobear]

You know BB, 168 posts later, I don't think anyone's improved on "Shut up."

[madamez]

I think a vegetarian or vegan parent would be getting close to abuse if they were to punish a child for eating meat, though... But I also don't much like parents who are obsessed with keeping their children (particularly girls) thin to the extent of policing their diets and bullying them about their eating.

[andiec]

My husband is a vegan and me and both our children (6 and 2) follow a completely meat free but fish included diet. I would not stop my children eating meat if they chose to. I try not to brainwash them by saying that everyone has a choice of what to eat and most of our friends eat meat but I don't want to.
Ripeberry - we have two cats. Feed them ordinary meaty cat food as humans can thrive without meat but I don't think cats can? I expect someone may contradict me on that but I don't think it would be fair on the cats as they are carnivores.

[madamez]

Wlnutshell: I wasn't suggesting that the OP or ano other vegetarians posting on this thread are not competent cooks, mearly stating that some vegetaritans and vegans are not, and do not eat at all healthily (same as some omivores). But people who are going to exclude certain food groups (be it meat, dairy or carbs, be it due to highmindedness or stupid trend-following) you need to havea bit of a clue what you are doing before inflicting it on kids. If you're obsessed with the avoidance of certain food groups then you can end up having an unbalanced diet .
(When I say' you' here I'm meaing 'one/them/anyone not any poster specifically). A lot of peole are stupid about food, some because they are simply uninterested in it, some because they've absorbed silly ideas.

[Ripeberry]

Sorry, i have to ask this... Do vegetarians keep cats or only dogs that eat vegetables?
Would like to know as my friend is vegetarian and says her cat eats carrotts.
I thought cats would die without the special enzines found in meat.
AB

[MadamePlatypus]

I think its very strange to 'get arsey' about a vegetarian having vegetarian kids. We all have to eat protein - how we do that is up to us. Its no more essential to eat cow or sheep than it is to eat squirrel. I agree 100% with what asset1 posted.

[shrooms]

Hmmm. Stereotypes. We know people who are very skeptical of veganism and vegetarianism, and people who are very interested and intrigued.
I definately agree that you should raise your child vegan/veggie, because at the very least it'll do no harm, and at best, will give them a fantastic advantage over other children in their health, well being and worldly knowledge/ responsibility.
Raising my Kids vegan is as much about learning to take responsibility for your actions and being able to accept other people's sometimes harsh opinions, as it is about diet of simple animal welfare.

Usually the less convinced are tamed somewhat when they see how well we all eat and how healthy and robust my two are. They are both slighlty taller than average and 50-60th centiles for weight. So proportionately they are both slim, but not thin looking.

They also do eat some homemade cakes and sweety things which you should be able to enjoy in childhood (and adulthood...) and their friends are usually jealous of their healthy and tasty lunchboxes.

Everyone forms opinions about everything. It's a fact of life, and we, as the slight minority, have to accept that. Just explain your reasoning and if they still don't understand then at least you know you are doing the right thing.

[ally90]

oooh! Had this one today! Was chatting to someone I vaguely know from round town and he suggested that I give my dd the choice later whether to be veggie or not. So I replied 'well I actually take the opposite opinion, I think its wrong to feed a child dead animals when they don't even know what they are eating'. He then went on to suggest my dd having tantrums (at 18mth) could be down to diet but she is a very fussy eater so I wasn't going to blast him for that...but I don't think stuffing dead animals down her neck is going to be the answer.

[winnie]

My dd is 17 and I was given hell by all manner of people from HV's to neighbours when she was a baby to teachers and her friends parents when she went to school. Dd was one of two children in a school of over 400 who were veggie. The other veggie was veggie on religious grounds. They all felt they had a right to comment & one nursery teacher made such an issue of it she virtually accused me of abuse!!! The general attitude was what I, as an adult choose to do is up to me but what I choose for my child isn't I never understood why that could not be turned on its head re meat eating but ho hum... live and let live

Ten years later I had ds & attitudes had changed considerably. I cannot imagine either of my children ever choosing to eat meat. If they do, that is their choice.

I personally could not buy, prepare & cook meat for my children and I will not provide it for others.

bohemianbint, I am a veggie for all the reasons you are (other than being forced to eat meat, how awful). Stick to what you believe in and don't let it get to you.

[asset1]

We're also all vegetarian. DH's family is Indian and so rather than seeing it as choosing to be vegetarian - or forcing the issue on DS - it's more a matter that vegetarianism is the norm and some people choose to eat meat. DS can choose to do that when he's older if he wants. And the response to questions about whether it is healthy is that several million Hindus are perfectly healthy. So I suppose I have it easy, even though I'm not Indian and DH is not particularly religious, we can kind of justify it as a 'cultural' thing!
Having said that DH's mum moved here in the 70s and thought the kids needed to integrate so brought them up on Fray Bentos pies - even though she's never touched meat in her life!

[becklespookle]

I was brought up as a vegetarian, I had no choice and "in my day" I was very singled out. There was no such thing as vegetarian cheese (these days most cheese is) and myself and my brother were the only 'veggies' in our school. It caused a lot of teasing! These days I can't honestly see that it is a problem, there are plenty of vegetarian options out there - even in school and in fast food restaurants.

I am still vegetarian and can't imagine ever eating meat (probably more because of habit than because of any strong beliefs) but I am happy for my DSs to eat it. I have no problem with cooking or handling meat and giving it to my DSs means that when they are older they can make an informed choice about whether they wish to be vegetarian or not. If my DH didn't eat meat then I would probably have done what my parents did and not given it to the DSs but IMHO it is up to you how you rear your children and your brother should butt out!

[WindUpBird]

Imo I think it's often ignorance that makes people 'arsey' about vegetarian kids. A lot of people still don't realise that you can have a well balanced diet being a vegetarian. My 18 month DD doesn't eat meat at home (though does eat fish a couple of times a week), but she has eaten meat a couple of times at relatives' houses as long as I've checked beforehand that it's organic/local etc. I've 'allowed' her to do that as I don't believe eating meat is 'wrong' for other people, I just choose not to do it myself. I wouldn't let dd have meat at nursery as it's probably battery farmed.
I think you should probably just continue to say 'shut up' to anyone else who asks you again about your child's diet. You know you are providing nutritious food, it doesn't matter what anyone else says.